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Comments:
Hi Nazi Slayer,What the heck was that all about?Peter

Comments:

At 07:54 AM 6/12/99, you wrote:
>Dear dogboy,
>
>Thanks for your message to MSN Hotmail. The account that you reported is not a valid Hotmail account. The individual is forging message headers, suggesting that the message originated with Hotmail. E-mail addresses beginning with numbers are not valid. E
mail addresses that have additional information in the domain name are also not valid.
>
>Examples: 
>2abd@hotmail.com
>ilovetrash@hot.hotmail.com
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>
>Example:
>
>Tue 02 July 1997 13:47:27 PST
>X-Originating-IP: [123.4.567.89]
>From: "Scarlett O'Hara" scarlett0gwtw@hotmail.com
>
>
>Hotmail members cannot post directly to newsgroups. Members must go through an independent news-posting service or use another e-mail program. 
>
>We have actively pursued legal action against many of these spammers who are forging addresses from the Hotmail domain.  Please help us by forwarding all unsolicited e-mail with the Hotmail domain name in the headers or bodies to abuse@hotmail.com
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>We encourage you to visit the following links to learn more about spam, forged message headers, and how to complain about e-mail abuse:
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>MSN Hotmail Support
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>
>--- Original Message ---
>From:  dogboy@canberra.teknet.net.au
>To:    abuse@hotmail.com
>Sent:  6/10/99 8:39:04 PM
>Subject:       Fwd: R.I.P.
> 
>You may remember Nazi Slayer, the guy I was talking about recentluy?  Well,
>here's the proof that he's not using the Hotmail accounts properly - note
>that there is no IP address, except for the GeoCities mail server.  He is
>probably using a POP package (MS Mail) to use his hotmnail account, which I
>believe is against the rules.
>>Received: from geocities.com (mail10.geocities.com [209.1.224.138])
>>by canberra.teknet.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19543
>>for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:01:41 +1000 (EST)
>>Received: from server.ctcinternet.cl (iv06235.dialupiv.ctcreuna.cl
>[200.28.224.235])
>>by geocities.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17981
>>for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
>>Message-Id: <199906080201.TAA17981@geocities.com>
>>From: "Nazi Slayer" 
>>To: "Gruesome Gay Goebbels" 
>>Subject: R.I.P.
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:25:52 -0400
>>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>X-Priority: 3
>>X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>X-UIDL: 10816c9bab2b70d2f202e102afe4a7c4
>>
>>Dear qxxxr,
>>
>>It is obvious that you cannot resist spamming me, despite your inane
>>explanations as to how your continued and obsessive harassment would not
>>fit the exact definition of "spamming". Your e-mails 
>
>
>

Comments:
Dear Peter: Thank you very much for your interest in my book. I will keep in touch. Following your suggestion, I am reprinting my request below: Over the last five years, I have written a book, provisionally titled "Principles of Liberty". The book constitutes an attack on the enormous expansion in the role of the state in the 20th century, with a passionate defense of individual liberty, on mora , rather than economic, grounds. The manuscript covers the following topics: -A tight knit definition of freedom. -The contrast between a free society where each individual is free to pursue his own aims provided his means are honest, with an unfree society, where the state imposes a single hierarchy of ends. -The intrinsic value of liberty. Criticism of defense of freedom on utilitarian grounds, e.g. freedom is good because it leads to the realization of values other than freedom, for instance economic growth. -Why those who oppose capitalism and free markets (and there are still many of them around) are essentially opposing freedom. -A defense of free banking. Government takeover of banknote emission illustrates how, once government has succeeded in taking over a sphere of economic life for a long enough period of time, people forget that there is an alternative to government control. -Criticism of "positive rights" and "social justice". These false ideals are not compatible with the workings of a free society. -Why democracy and liberty are not the same. -How every aspect of the welfare state-government pensions and health care, progressive taxation, state enforced limitations on working hours-are about nothing else than the increase of state control over the individual. -The connection between old style socialism-the movement that aimed at nationalization of the means of production-and the modern welfare state. -How socialism, fascism and national socialism relate to each other. -Liberalism: how the name of the party of liberty has been highjacked by the enemies of liberty, why this reversal of the meaning of words matters and how the name liberalism can be taken back. -Finally, the last chapter looks at the twentieth century. Was it really a coincidence that the century characterized by two world wars and the most murderous regimes humanity has ever seen, Bolshevism and National Socialism, also saw a marked decline in he belief in individual liberty in favor of state action, and the replacement of liberalism by socialism as the dominant ideology in the last decades of the 19th century? How the failures of government control are used to justify more government control." Would any reader know of a good potential publisher for this work? Please contact me at ste_aderca@hotmail.com. Yours Sincerely, Stephane

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AS AN ALIEN, or rather a person not legetimately living in the USA (no worries CIA and FBI readers, I actually live in Australia at the moment) I always feel a bit excluded when people start to talk about a free american nation. Personally, I believe the ord nation is rather tainted. - CAPITALISM inevitably comes with government control. Currency is printed and controlled by government. Ownership and contractual disputes call for courts to make rulings. Fair trade principles presume the rule of law. - A RADICAL, non-compromise position is being discussed in the Libertaria group. To join or read the archive of messages, just click on the above link. The central question is: can Libertaria be established without national borders and without government co trol? One approach is that, in Libertaria, everyone will be free and everything will be free. - THE PROMISE is this: In future, products and services will become so cheap that the time one has to 'work' in order to obtain them, will be negligable. Already now, the cost of administration of telephone calls outweighs the revenue. There are numerous ex mples. Globalisation, competition and progress in technology, management techniques, in ways of distributing, storing, manufacturing, etc, all trends show a steep decline in prices. - IMAGINE: a future without money, without government, rules, laws, bureaucracy, courts, police, prisons, armies and other institutions that feed on government control. - A patronising person recently called this Utopia. My reply was: If given the choice between the comfort and beauty of my dreams on the one hand, and life in your nightmare on the other hand, I'll choose for Libertaria anytime! Come and join us and express your views!

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Hi Peter, Well, thanks for the perspective. While it may seem inconsistent of me to agree with you, an object is the same object from almost any perspective and what you say is only more detail on the same situation. I am not going back on my argument about the lateness of the hour but do not think it is going to come crashing down because there is no concentration of wealth in a tangible asset like gold as was the case in the '29 depression. If you look at the DJ average or the S&P average for the last 200 year of this country's economic history you will see that even the worst recessions/depressions and panics were merely market corrections of not more than 50% of the previous run up. This is normal market activity. We have had a new game since FDR and the monitizing of debt. The problem arises because the masses finally catch on that they are incapable of independent wealth accretion. Their money is worth what the fair market value is in the trading pits of the orld gauged by the GNP, consumption,balance of payments and exchange rate. This inconsistent rubber ruler causes spot fires of inflation and poor worker incentive to produce which are the shoals upon which all utopian schemes eventually dash to bits. Just because we have a free market economy does not imply it is not centrally controlled by either governments or mogul business. That central control means manipulation. Manipulation is a poor second guess at best and no government or mogul can react fast eno gh to keep up. If the flow of commodity or currency stops for any reason, the whole thing comes down. That has happened in Asia and will in Europe under the European Common Market and its new currency. Gold backed money puts a fixed measure on the worth of currency. People argue that there isn't enough gold in the world to monitize the circulating currencies but that is a lie based on the theoretical shortage of zeroes or the immovable decimal point What you may ask is the difference between monitized gold and monitized debt? Plenty. When gold is the standard, it must be altered by law and that is with the consent of the electorate. When debt is monitized, it is outside the law and without the conse t of the electorate. It is counterfeiting at its worst. Done in secret meetings and in closed board rooms the manipulators meet to set the value of currency based on the production and consumption of taxed commodities which revenue backs the money loaned. It is the same trick newly weds pull when they max out their credit cards. It means no one can ever count on the value of money. No one can ever get out of debt nor ever stop paying taxes which is only interest on the debt; just like the newlywed example. When a parent puts money away for college for his children; it might be only a down payment by the time they need it. When a worker puts money away for retirement, with SSI, he may have to eat pet food to survive. Whether money is revalued with falling/ri ing interest rates or by government edict, inflation is the underlying cancer that will devour the present system; even when relative world inflation makes it less apparent. Peter wrote:The current stock market euphoria is generating a Permanent Prosperity and Permanent Statism delusion every bit as irresistible and absurd as that prevalent in the late 1920s. Once a turndown starts, it may be the most amazing house of cards ever. The Dow could drop well below 1000 according to many estimates, and it could do so relatively quickly despite the likely aggressive SEC/Fed intervention. John replies: The current stock market is frightening the hell out of the FED manipulators because of wide speculator participation and Single Order Execution where the day traders are running the market up and Mutual funds are replacing banking instituti ns as repositories of currency. The banking cartel is not worried about what happens to the market; they worry about the loss of control of the economy. Now the Mutuals effectively control the flow of currency. Some of the smarter Joe Sixpacks have caught on to the valuelessness of oney and SSI and are determined to let the "oversold" market do for them what inflation in banking had done for the FED cartel. An oversold market is just an inflated market. Inflated currencies or markets make money for participants when the reversals co e and weak players give up their holdings at a loss to avoid further loss. The Fed doesn't like competition. Currency is its only game and the FED thought that if it monitized debt, it could control the flow and value there of eternally; remaining obscene y profitable. That scheme failed when they failed to realize that stock issue is a form of currency. That currency is backed by legal tender currency which is backed by debt monitization which is backed by GNP and IRS receipts. Gets dicy, doesn't it? So the FED really fears a speculator driven economy which provides legal tender in amounts great enough to relieve investors from having to go to places of employment to earn money which is taxed by the IRS which pays down the monitized debt interest. This worries the FED because fewer workers will mean lower GNP, balance of payments, lower IRS collections. This is the real reason they want a national sales tax/consumption tax to replace income tax. With no GNP,no income tax revenue, no control over mu ual fund growth, banking has lost control of the economy. Raising interest rates will exaserbate the situation for the surviving businesses that need capital and lowering interest rates will spur on the stock market and heat up the economy. Since a lower NP causes the public spend legal tender on foreign made goods, the balance of payments will be askew. This will become apparent when foreign banks realize that being paid in worthless paper without commodity or GNP backing is a form of subtle theft from heir enslaved peoples. Whether it is gold or commodities, something must back money. Debt cannot do it alone. If legal tender is earned by speculation, which is incapable of producing hard goods for the GNP component of the economic engine, (even though it is IRS taxed) not ing is produced and paper is worth nothing without commodity. You are right about the permanent prosperity delusion which is about to come to an end. Sadly, you are not correct about the harshness or suddenness of the end. The reason for this is in accountancy. Stock markets and banks use a form of accountancy t at has a built in lie since it only counts(accounts for) bank notes and stock issues. Looking only at the instruments of economic register, they fail to see the joblessness, lack of GNP, or import imbalance. TRADING states historically fall to oblivion when they lose control over trading routes, methods or sources of commodity. The great hope for the UN was that the USA would control the institution thus guaranteeing our domination of all trade through it There is at least enough democracy in the institution that this has not happened in total yet. This is the real threat to the economy of the United States as it relates to global trade. It is implicit that one have something to trade of greater value tha draft notes; when one trades. In a speculator driven economy absent GNP, that is a hard sleight of hand to pull off. Socialism as a method of control of "worker/slaves" has been covered in earlier posts and still does not address the trading problem betw en states. The United States will experience an unusual economy for the next 15 years but I do not see it as apocalyptically as Vin does. I see a correction as we experienced in November 1998. I see no more than a normal 50% correction and then new growth. But that will not stop the ravages of inflation nor address the trading problem in a service and information based economy. Currency can be revalued but that is no better a solution than manipulating interest rates and still only addresses the accountancy side of he problem. America has no commodity nor gold to back the trade debt that follows the dominoes back to the monitization of debt problem that started the dominoes falling in the first place. The solution of FDR worked when we had factories and jobs in Amer ca; it can't work now in the information age of service based GNP. Solving this problem is no easy task and that is why Comrade Ruben stepped down. The central control monster has raised its ugly statist head and is hungrily devouring its tail. It will take a while for the lesson to sink in to most economist's,banker s,politician's heads but they will eventually turn to Libertarian, natural law, fittest survive by managing scarce resources on a individual sovereign basis. That realization will be the first one. Then, money must be backed by immutable and tangible metal or gems. It must be a matter of law to alter the value thereof. Debt must never again be monitized. Americans have to accept the honor of labor as neces ary to the maintenance of their economy. Tariff is necessary but must be restrained by law. This country can not be the master trading state of the world. War is not an acceptable way to stimulate the economy and should be only a means of defense by an act of Congress under law and the Constitution. Gifts of money or any other thing are strictly forbidden in the Constitution and that must again be enforced. Americans shall never be taxed again except by tariff. They shall be sovereign citizens independent of the state and receiving no Moinies from it, shall not be beholden to it except in matters of the Constitution, which gurantees them civil rights and protects their freedom from all interlopers and usurpers.

Comments:
Hi Peter, Peter wrote:. I think today's statist system will collapse suddenly like the Soviet Union did, and we will have an opportunity to change things quickly. John replies: I thank you for the sermon! You know you are preaching to the choir but that is hope inspiring too. I have to disagree with your one premise that the statist system will collapse suddenly like the Soviet Union did. The reason this can't happen is simply the way the economic system works on a global scale. Remember what I told you about elephants being trained to accept being tied to a small stake with a small rope and feeling insecure when their mahout forgot? W ll that is what has happened to human beings who are continually the husbanded crops of central bankers and statist tax gathering states who milk the rate payers as ants milk aphids. The new economic system is not based on the concept of property possess on or wealth accretion. It is based on the premise of consume as you go. The consumers provide the energy in the economic engine as long as the accountancy of currency serves that function so a balance of debt between states can be registered, an acceptab e level of comfort can be realized by the husbanded species. The only "persons" are the "farmer politicians and mogul manufacture/industrialists" who can accrete wealth and posses gold; all others in the cycle are husbanded animals. Note the value of gold if you don't believe me. No one wants it anymore because money is backed by the sweat,blood and tears of the enslaved masses who prefer it that way; not gold. They are truly husbanded crops. They are the Joe Sixpacks I continually speak of and they would ever revolt against their masters and give up the comfort of easy lives for the intangible ideals of liberty and responsibility. No one on the commodity market wants gold anymore. But, someone owns it. Guess who. Warren Buffet of Birkshire Hathaway bough hundreds of thousands of ounces of silver as a hedge a year ago and never said a thing about why or what his plans are for it. He has not sold it. Most millionaires own gold because it is the only property one can own that is still a register of concentr ted wealth. The husbanded animals want good and contented lives; the husbandmen want the gold. So you get the animals to provide their own sustenance through income taxation and other tax. Have a war and sell a little blood when you need quick cash. Get t e animals to accept totalitarian governance but let them lead comfortable, insulated from reality, lives of consumerism and edge of poverty tax rates. On the narcotic of comfort, the hardships of freedom are quickly forgotten. Get the animals to give up t e rights of property ownership and convince them that they are consumer workers who must pay their own way, a day at a time, and that they can be comfortable, and that that is the "American way" and the animal will buy it every time and resist change to h s death. Take away the bill of rights and the Constitution or make them irrelevant through circumventing legislation but retain the documents as historically significant as is the Magna Carta. Who needs guns? The government has hired us 100 thousand polic men every year since Clinton authorized the spending that Congress did not oppose. Who needs the right to a free press when it is owned by the government and its speakers are government employees? Who needs the freedom to peaceably assemble when no one wa ts to anymore because no one needs to assemble to solve problems that don't exist. Only you and I, Peter, see the handwriting on the wall. I wish your dream were true but I am afraid the animals have locked themselves into the prison, farm labor, camp of heir own making and prefer it that way. No one can rescue a man in flight who has chosen suicide by leaping from a tall building. He hasn't hit the pavement yet and is earnestly committed to his own self destruction. The fall is longer than our lives, Pet r. When todays generation get to the bottom they will have no education, no knowledge of history, no weapons, no property, no gold and only the human desire to reproduce and preserve the self for reproduction. That's just about where hogs, cattle and shee are now. See any farm rebellions lately? Stampedes of cattle don't happen anymore because the gene to stampeed has been genetically bred out of cattle. Really, they have identified the gene that makes cattle prone to stampeed to remove danger from human workers" (husbanded humans) who must tend them. Have you heard of Creutzfeld Jakobs disease? It is "mad cow" disease in cattle. It is human spongiform encephalitis in humans. It comes from the ingestion of piron protein particles which attack the nervous system of affected animals causing brain shr nkage and the appearance of sponge like brain tissue; under the microscope. It is caused by adding slaughter byproducts to feed on which the next animals to be slaughtered are fattened. Eating meat is about as dangerous as smoking. The tobacco settlement emoved one danger from husbanded tax rate payer/consumers but it was replaced with CJD. Alcohol,prostitution,drugs,tobacco,meat eating are all things Joe Sixpack likes to do. You keep him mollified by picking on the least popular thing, tax it to death an move on to the next thing when the consumers of that thing all die. The money keeps coming in and Joe Sixpack stays doped up on the good life. Additionally, contraband keeps such products profitable. Prostitution, drugs are contraband because there is no profit in these businesses under taxation and regulation. It is almost impossible to regulate the genitalia of human animals without a mora code or religion; both absent in contemporary America. This is perceived as "personal freedom" and is the proffered replacement for the Bill of Rights. Without a moral code, one must have laws to restrain the 'reality escaping' tendencies of husbanded h mans who like to mingle genitalia and consume 'mental experience altering' contraband substances. One can grow such substances more easily than food; most are weed like and require little husbandry. When the population of a totalitarian state prefers its condition to liberty there is no winning the battle for the hearts and minds of the victims of its curel slavery because they are convinced you are the enemy who is depriving them of the fruits f the statist paradise. If you threaten their lurid little world wherein talking heads nightly entreat the empty heads to mental masturbation in the fantasy that pseudo intellectualism provides you will hear the regurgitated arguments supporting status qu every time the subject is broached. It is stomach turning, but that is the reality of life in contemporary America; animals fighting to maintain their right to be animals instead of free men. What a sad day has descended on our nation. (This looks like "Sermon Marathon") So Long, John Mahler

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Comments:
I was intrigued , Peter, by your articulate and cogent reply to Nazi Slayer. But your first issue held the germ of an idea in which you and I already participate , our International Libertarian Network at the URL above. Your suggestion of a LIBINTERN is somewhat presaged by the ILN but I believe that such an organization as a LIBINTERN should have a unique historical precursor that I would call LIBINFORM. The purpose of LIBINFORM would be to actively organize websites like Nation of Liberty and ILN into an online journal club for libertarians and anarchists to interact rationally and also to be constructively engaged global activities such as those you have proposed for Nation of Liberty. I would like to take the responsibility to develop this LIBINFORM site, perhaps here at Geocities, with the hope of eventually transforming it to LIBINTERN. As a member of Nation of Liberty I believe that my experience as ILN webmaster could best be utilzedsed for this purpose. I look forward to your comments and will send you the URL as soon as possible. Sincerely, Howard

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70% of Americans are so intimidated and uninformed about their government that the statists in power have an easy time binding them down with the velvet chains of "perceived prosperity" and "redistributed wealth". They simultaneously steal by way of the e actation of tribute and redistribute by way of democratic poll relevations and unfunded mandated programs. Sacred cow programs are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. I once asked a rabid socialist who he thought would pay the demands of those on the dole when all wage earners were taxed to the maximum of their wages. He replied that, at that time, socialism's work would be complete. Everyone would be equal and tha is the object of socialism in a hegemenic new world order. Everyone in the world enslaved to everyone else. Utopia! No more want or need will exist because everyone will be equal with everyone else. Everyone's misery will be everyone's misery. Slavery will become the norm and no on will object because they will say,"T'was it ever thus". So statist democracy has only one object and that is the elevation of the politician to the position now occupied by the priviledged in a capitolist economy. I finally read "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. The pigs in that fable represent politicians metamorphically. Near the end of the work, when the fruits of equality are examined by the participants of the story, the pigs put up an announcement on the bu letin board explaining why they enjoy a better quality of life. It reads, "Pigs are more equal". George Orwell saw clearly the great failure of central government,statist solutions to the problems of "envy" among men. Envy is what drives every economic ph losophy in human society. Elsewhere it is driven by the Darwinian prime directive which is "fittness to survive"; capitolism in short. The expenditure and conservation of scarce resources is still best left up to the individual. Statists can never predict the needs of the underpriviledged nor extract the wealth of the gifted by legal edict. The poor will never be satisified because they "envy" and the gifted will not exploit their full potential if they know their overlords will confiscate it. So the socie y degenerates into misery. Social scientists would build hydro-electric plants in lakes where the water is "Equal" while hydro-electric engineers/scientists build them below lakes utilizing the differential of elevation and the energy of gravity to drive the turbines that gener te electricity. Social scientists are the genius of recessive economics that historically have lead to the downfall of earlier nations.

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I have already linked to your fantastic libertarian page at my site. Your no-nonsenseanti-ethnocentric approach is what the Libertarian movement needs!Howard OlsonNorth American CoordinatorILN

Comments:
Greetings comrade,

Congratulations on your novel approach towards advancing the cause of freedom, which you rightly present as a popular, democratic, radical, progressive and revolutionary struggle. I especially share your insight that libertarianism is not incompatible wit voluntary socialism. However, I have some reservations to make. Most of them are related to the fact that true freedom is only possible among equals:

1. The Revolution must be worldwide. Nation-states are artificial constructions to protect the statu quo. Foreign intervention is justified on the grounds of revolutionary internationalism.
2. The "right" to inheritance must be restricted, to avoid (ultimately freedom-destroying) hereditary concentrations of wealth and power.
3. I believe that there should be some kind of social welfare network for those who cannot fend for themselves, in case private charity is not enough.
4. Reason and individual freedom of conscience are incompatible with the "right" of parents and communities to brainwash young children with religious bullshit. Political and religious indoctrination should only be allowed on an individual voluntary basi .

LIBERTY - EQUALITY - FRATERNITY - or death!

Nazis are Fags. A politically incorrect site promoting the liberal values of freedom, justice, rationality and equality.

Comments:
Hi Peter, I like the changes and new articles. I wanted to sign your guestbook again because my e-mail address has changed if anyone wants to contact me for more on my personal interpretation of Libertarianism. Death to statism. Liberty is justice. Viva Constitu ion and Liberty. No more taxes, no vice laws, money backed by gold,private ownership and use of firearms for personal protection and preservation of property. Agreed, John Mahler

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like your page i'll keep in touch i am a friend of john mahler. my page is not to great i am getting better at html

Comments:
If not Liberty then you can only have Totalitarianism. Which would you like?

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Hi Peter,Great web site! I guess I shouldn't write this late. I was supposed to say something about your really poignent web site. Well, if this doesn't get someone bothered about the revolting rate at which statism is developing in America, perhaps there is indeed a "Death of Outrage" in America as Uncle Bill writes.

Comments:
Hi All, Just a brief test to verify that the guestbook is working. Looking forward to your comments.