Greetings Sports Gamers!
It seems that I have led some people astray and I'm hoping to get some clarification for myself and others. Unless my memory is slipping, someone--and possibly more than one person--has talked about trying to revive Statis Pro Hockey with current player cards. I don't recall who is was nor how far along they were in the project. Can anyone enlighten me, and the rest of us?
Thanks to all of who responded with comments and suggestions regarding my SI Basketball project. I am working on a few ideas and I hope to run a few things out for feedback soon.
And the time has come for another gathering of the Bay Are Sports Gaming Association. I have the weekends of June 19-20 or 26-27 open. If no one wants to host we can probably meet at my place (Richmond Annex, near Albany hill for those familiar with the East Bay). Sports games. Sports game talk. Let's have a show of hands.
Regards,
Jim Gordon
jgordon@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2125
Pawtucket or Bust!
***********************
From: Daniel Glass
Dave Arlington wrote:
"I downloaded Extra Innings off the web page and it really looks complete
> but for some reason, I'm having some real trouble with the 'simplicity'
> of this game. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I can't figure it out.
> First I roll the dice to see if something happens on the first chart?
> Then I roll again, checking against the batter's ratings and the second
> chart (if he didn't get a hit)? Something like that? I'm getting really
> confused about how many times to roll and what I'm supposed to be looking
> at when, modified by what. It looks very accurate, but a lot more work than
> I want to do to play a game. But am I missing something here maybe?
>
Dave -- and others: Extra Innings takes a little getting used to at first, but it is actually one of the fastest playing games ever designed. Jack Kavanagh who designed EI way back in the early 1970s considered a playing time of over twenty minutes for any table bb game to be excessive, and generally frowned on any "improvements" that lengthened playing time. The two dice-roll routine might seem to be an obstacle to fast play, but the experienced player can readily read both rolls with only infrequent referrals to players ratings and game charts. I play it as fast as an APBA basic game. The nice thing about EI is that you the player ratings are easy to do from published stats and the replayer can play any historic team or league if you want to do the ratings yourself. The web site now lists an incredible variety of old easons. Jack Kavanagh has an interesting article on table games in "The New Baseball Catalog"
***********************
From: Joe Preston
Subject: comments about basketball design
Jim,
We've never met but I was reading your ruminations on the basketball system and was motivated to comment. I'll try to be brief...
It's seems to me that with the exception of fast break opportunities the defense gets to control the action most of the time in basketball. So when I think along the lines of your model, it seems that much like the pitchers in
Statis Pro Baseball can control the action by getting a PB number within their range, teams in basketball have the opportunity to control the flow of play. What I'm suggesting is something like dual ratings for the offensive players (Good Shot/Bad Shot). As long as the defense is holding it together the offense is taking Bad Shot (probably would sound better with a different name because what I'm thinking of is not so much "bad" as "not open". Gifted offensive players would have fairly high Bad Shot ratings, reflecting their ability to break down defenses and create their own shot. On defense the players would also have an individual rating that basically relates their ability to influence the shot (shot block, foul, hand in face) when team defense has broken down. I don't know much about how results are figured out in basketball board games, so I'm not sure whether you would have defenders attempt to "go for the block"; or "put a body on the shooter"; or whether it would be randomly determined.
Possibly you already have a similar or superior mechanic and just didn't mention
it in your note, but I thought I'd chime in (its probably because I've been
watching way too many playoff games lately).
Sincerely,
Joe Preston
***********************
From: "Alfred and Lynn Moretz"
Subject: E-mail address change
Please change my e-mail address from alfred@ldd.net to lynal@marz.com.
Thank you,
Alfred Moretz
***********************
From: "David Loparco"
Jim-
Regarding your efforts to design a new basketball game: Have you ever
had occasion to play "FastBreak" by Mickey Games? It's been out of print
since 1986 but it had a terrific design engine and really captured the flow
of basketball, all without getting bogged down in a series of dice rolls.
It emphasized outcome over process, something that I think is critical to
any board hoop game. Let me know if you would further details. Really
enjoy the site and all of the contributions that others make.
[I've only heard a little about FastBreak and I'd be interested in hearing your impressions about that system.--JCG]
Dave Loparco
***********************
From: KVAvallone@aol.com
Subject: Miscellaneous comments
Hi Jim!
It's been a long time since I had a spare moment to contribute to the digest,
but I HAVE been reading them avidly! While I've got the chance, I want to
throw in a few things that have come up in recent editions...
Regarding replay reports...definitely KEEP them...especially using the
guidelines you have posted, concise and interesting...No question that the
reason we PLAY board games is to re-create sports action! I, too, used to
read and re-read the APBA sales brochure with the replay reports...
Regarding promotional messages from game creators...As a game creator myself,
I lean toward including such messages. However, as a digest reader, i don't
want the whole thing to be a big advertisement for other people's games.
Balance, again, is the key. I have tried to keep a lid on my own promotional
efforts for my game. I think all of the game creators on the list have the
sense and courtesy to not abuse this.
[That's what I'm counting on.--JCG]
Speaking of which, I would like to add my endorsement to Mike Owens Quick
Play pro football game...while stat-free, it DOES give you the feel of a pro
game, in that it progresses quarter-by-quarter, so you can, for example,
"feel" an upset building over the course of the game, as well as a late-game
comeback...I have not played the game to a great extent--I've replayed a
couple of seasons of my beloved New Orleans Saints, each of which has wound
up remarkable paralell to the real-life NFL season results.
Now, a relavant issue to table-gaming. I am currently creating the 1960 AFL
players to go along with the '60 NFL set for my game, Second Season, and have
again run across a situation that any game creator has likely run across.
Namely, how do you reconcile a team whose won-loss record is not reflected in
their statistical performance? Specifically, the 1960 Dallas Texans. They
were statistically the best team in the AFL that year, with a solid offense
and the league's best defense. Yet, they finished 8-6 and failed to make the
playoffs. (They lost two games by a single point and another by two points)
If I create the team to perform statistically accurately, they will likely
beat out the Chargers for the AFL West title. So, which is more important,
statistical accuracy, or overall team performance?
In the past I have always gone for the statistical accuracy. Which is why
after eight weeks of my 1960 NFL replay, the Philadelphia Eagles are a
disappointing 4-4. In real life, they finished 10-2 and won the NFL
title...despite a weak running game
and a run defense that ranked near the bottom of the league. In my replay,
strong running teams like the Browns, Lions, and Cardinals have feasted on
the Eagles poor run defense. Similarly, my 1968 Jets have never been able to
duplicate their upset of the Colts simply because they were statistically an
inferior team. I must confess, this leaves me with a less-than-satisfying
experience, but I console myself with statistical realism. Any thoughts on
this out there?
[I suppose that if you emphasize overall team performance then the teams which won the most games in real life should do so in the game. Denver 1998 should win the Super Bowl and if they don't does that make your game inaccurate, or just unrealistic? I tend to rely on statistical accuracy and leave the success or failure to the abilities of the coach. Upsets are part of the game, and who's to say whether the Jets could have defeated the Colts two out of three tries. When you factor in injuries, weather, home field, and other intangibles a game becomes more realistic because those statistical comparisons lost some of their influence. There is a difference between a great team and a team with great statistics, although you usually get both together. The Dallas Texans must have had some shortcomings or they could have pulled out those close games, or they wouldn't have been that close to begin with.--JCG]
***********************
From: "Hall, Marc (CAP, ITS, US)"
Subject: MY PEERS OPINION'S....
I recently finished a fantasy replay of a statis pro 162 game season. I now have
to give out the post season awards & would like some input from any who are
interested. The Cy Young was a walkaway, 1979 J.R. Richard went 28-2 with 11
shut outs and a remarkable 1.36 ERA in 33 starts. The MVP is close call, so
I thought I'd let you guys help me out.
PLAYER AB HITS D T HR R'S RBI'S K'S W'S GAMES AVE.
A. 695 239 35 8 29 118 119 41 22 157 .344
B. 623 181 21 9 55 131 130 118 83 159 .291
C. 661 209 39 7 44 127 148 71 45 158 .316
[I can see why you are torn between these three guys since each of them seems to deserve it on numbers alone. Player C looks like the best all around and generated lots of runs. I might look at the impact that each player had on his particular team. Was Player A the only high average hitter on his team? How many home runs total were hit by Player B's team? I'd like to hear how you make your final decision.--JCG]
I have purposely left out the players names to prevent any bias. All 3
players teams made the post season. If your interested in voting, plse email
me at:
marc.hall@gecits.ge.com
Thanks in advance for any input! I will post the results on the next digest.
***********************
From: "J. Woodson & DJ"
Woody here......I'll email my Paydirt standard playcall charts later this week.......
Just wanted to tell you I would like to help brainstorm this basketball fast action game. God knows I have made so many prototypes. I tried one recently with five different offensive plays which feature three players(such as "pick and roll" featuring #1 at 5 feet, #2 at 25 feet, and #5 at 10 feet) as the main feature. Then turning a multiple pack of regular playing cards, determine if the play would work or not....the longer the offense held the ball, then the better the chances for a shot and also the better the defensive result if they get a play. After the offense chooses "Pick and Roll", then defense can choose to double any player(obviously one of the three chosen), gamble for a steal, or choose not to double(standard).
[One idea that I've been toying with is to borrow from the Paydirt/Bowl Bound model for SI Basketball and use an interaction of results from both the offensive and defensive sides. Basically, a single dice roll would be checked against the player and either the defender or a team defense. Specific results would take priority, similar to the penalties, fumbles or defensive (results) in the football games. I have to give this more thought.--JCG]
Glad to help,
Woody
***********************
From: "Tom "
Subject: subscribe
Jim,
Please sign me up as another subscriber to your weekly newsletter. I
play in a baseball simulation league in Gainesville, Florida. We just
finished the 1965 National League season and will start the 1966 season in
September
Tom Williams
afn18693@afn.org
***********************
From: DPimente@aol.com
Subject: re: subscription
Can you add me to your subscription list for Sports Gaming Digest?
Thanks,
Dennis
***********************
From: EnGord@aol.com
Subject: Responsible gamers?
Jim,
I would just like to thank this digest and all of its ethusiastic members for
reigniting my interest in this great hobby. Since I've been home for summer
break, I've picked up my SOM basketball season that I hadn't touched for over
a year and a half. I also plan to try out Replay Baseball during the summer
and also continue my play of the greatest college football board game out
there, Varsity GridIron.
For the "responsible" people out there, you should try to find a couple of
hours each week to re-live the thrill of these games. These games are for the
true sports fans, plus they let you utilize your mind, something video games
don't do.
Finally, there is no doubt that this digest should continue to promote
anyone's sport game ventures. There is just about no other source that
captures the market as well as these email lists. It's tough out there for
the start ups, and we should do anything to help them out.
Continue the good work,
Travis Gordon
ps: Jim, if you want a playable si bball game, stay away from incorporating
systems used in games like Bowl Bound. Yikes, I still don't know how that
game caught on like it did.
[Every game has some good and bad, and nothing appeals to everyone. The SI games were the first sports games I discovered, and remained my only games for several years. I remain fond of them, thus my impulse to create a basketball companion. I still think there is a playable system waiting to be unearthed. We'll see.--JCG]
***********************
From: Frank Bachilas
Subject: SI baseball game
Hi Jim,
I came across the sports gaming digest web page when I was searching for a
sports illustrated baseball game. I'm wondering if you would know where I
can purchase the old Sports Illustrated All-time All-star baseball game. I
had it as a kid around 1971. From what I remember, the cover of the box has
an old black and white action photo of a baseball game in the Ruth era.
Inside the box, it doesn't have the individual player cards like the later
versions but instead it has 16 colored team roster charts with the all time
great players listed on them. There are 8 american league and 8 national
league charts with the batters on one side and the pitchers on the other.
The charts were much easier to use than the individual player cards. The
rosters you list in your web site are similar to the earlier version I had.
[All-Time All-Star Baseball is a very rare game and copies have gone for high prices on eBay. I missed it when it was first produced and it took me about 25 years to track down a copy.--JCG]
I appreciate you help.
Thanks,
Frank Bachilas
Shelburne, Vermont
***********************
From: Mark Beland
Please send me the digest. Thank you.
Mark Beland
***********************
From: Soonrfutbl@aol.com
Subject: game stuff
Hello,
I have been getting the digest for quite some time ( it is GREAT), and this
is the first time that I am giving some input. Although I have been a avid
player of SI games and others such as Six Points, Top Ten and Varsity
Gridiron--- I am venturing into the Strat-O-Matic Games and was wondering if
anybody can help me. Just got the Pro Basketball and Baseball Games , but
they are current teams and I was wondering if Strat-O-Matic made team years
of say 1972,1973,1974, and 1975. Or if anyone has tackled making these
themselves, if so I am interested in purchasing such items.Also had a
question about College Football and College Basketball Board games. Does
anyone make either of these items ( besides Varsity Gridiron--- which is a
super game, by the way). I don't think I stand alone in saying that if
current players were in these games they would sell BIG TIME. I also
understand that in today's money hungry world that certain royalty advances
are keeping us from getting great board game minds to put these games out.
Any help from all this is greatly appreciated. Thanks
Tracy Talley
soonrfutbl@aol.com
***********************
From: joe_muratore@es.adp.com (Joe Muratore)
Hi Jim,
I would like to receive the Sports Gaming Digest, I have been reading
the archives and enjoying the great discussions.
My favorite games are the Sports Illustrated Baseball board games, '70
Season through Superstar, plus AH Set II. It is the first game that I
truly played all the time. Nice design, color coding, and all the SI
games have that special quality to them.
At the moment, my daughter and I play the SI Handicap Golf, and she
loves to roll the dice for that birdie putt. I also have many 3M
Sports and Bookshelf games, which we play.
For a few years I played Strat-O-Matic Basketball, '72-'77 seasons. It
was a very good game. I am interested in your SI BB game, and would
like to play it at some point.
[SI Basketball is still percolating. The early playtest versions didn't play too well and I'll keep everyone posted about future progress. Thanks for being interested.--JCG]
I recently bought Dynasty League Baseball, just for the idea of
supporting a BB sim board game. It is an excellent game, detailed, but
play moves well. A lot of fun knowing where the ball has been hit, and
the strenghts of all the fielders coming into play.
Thanks for creating such a fine place for us sports gamers,
Sincerely,
Joe Muratore
***********************
From: Ron Bernier
Subject: New E-Mail
Just a quick message to inform you my address has changed ... I'm now at
rbernier@wworx.net ... Thanks !!!
Also, I'm looking for anywone who has computerized the Avalon Hill/SI Pro
Golf game ...
Ron Bernier, rbernier@wworx.net
***********************
From: "J. Woodson & DJ"
Subject: Playcall list for solo Paydirt
This chart goes with my earlier method of playing Paydirt solo. For a
copy email me. ------ Woody
[This chart got a little scarmbled in trsnmission but I think I straightened it out correctly.--JCG]
Offense
# NORMAL SHORT YDS LONG YDS ONE YARD
2 6 7,8,9 2 1,3,4
3 1,3,6 5 5 6
4 1,2,4 3 8 2
5 5,6,9 1 9 1
6 2,3,4 6 7 QB Sneak
7,8,9
10 7,8,9 2 4 3
11 3,5,7 4 3 5
12 7,8,RZDZ 7,8,9 RZDZ 7,8,9
Defense
# NORMAL SHORT YDS LONG YDS ONE YARD
2 D F B B
3 D C E D
4 F B F B
5 A B C F
6 B D D
7,8,9
10 C C A C
11 C A C C
12 E E E E
Please let me know of any improvements for the system ------ Woody
***********************
From: "MARK P HERRMANN"
Subject: Fast Break
Greetings, Jim:
Does anyone have information about, or interest in, reviving Fast Break,
Jim Mickey's stellar basketball game from the '70s and '80s? Anyone heard
from Jim Mickey?
***********************
From: "Kevin Taylor"
Subject: Replay's or no replays?
Hi all,
On the subject of people posting replay scores on the digest, it is good to see the results of other people's replaying, but maybe sometimes there is too much detail, I for one, am going to set up a web page and all my replay results will be posted here, I'll probably give the overall results on the digest and if people are interested they can then visit my page for more information and stats.
I am currently in the process of buying the licence to produce Lambourne Games, Dice and Chart game, 'Championship Boxing' and this should be available within the next six months, the game hasn't been updated since 1994, so the first job is to update the current contenders and the All Time Greats (last done in 1989). The current contenders will be updated every six months.
The web page should be up and running by the next digest so I will post the URL then. If anyone requires any information before then they can e-mail me at Kevin@kkcomp.globalnet.co.uk
Thanks
Kevin Taylor
***********************
From: Jeff Cowan
Subject: ASG Baseball
I recently obtained a copy of a board game called ASG baseball. Does
anyone know the details on this game's origin. Is it still in print?
What season team sets were issued? This is an excellent game and I am
very interested in obtaining an original copy and available teams sets.
[ASG is out of print. I had the 1988 season from 3W, which was the only year they produced as far as I know. They talked about doing the 1956 season but I don't think it hit the marketplace.--JCG]
thanks
jeff cowan
***********************
From: "Kevin Taylor"
Subject: Replay Gaming Web Page
Further to my earlier mail.
I have produced a page on Replay Gaming.
The address for my new web page is http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~kkcomp/replay.htm
As I said before I am in the process of getting 'Championship Boxing' back on the streets the details are on my page.
I am also in the process of making additional soccer seasons for 'Stats Soccer Replay' these details can also be found on the web page.
I will update the page with more and more over the next couple of months, so bookmark it and keep checking, I'll also post any major changes to the digest.
**************
END DIGEST 06-07-99
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