From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Sat Aug 10 11:01:32 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA07355 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:01:30 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (root@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA29292; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:01:07 -0700

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:01:07 -0700

Message-Id: <199608101801.LAA29292@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n088

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n088 --------------

 

001 - mailcall <mailcall@kiva.n - Re: Guardian article 29/6/96

002 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: 57 varieties of HC?

003 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - [Fwd: Re: Guardian article 29/6/96]

004 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Guardian article

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n088.1 ---------------

 

From: mailcall <mailcall@kiva.net>

Subject: Re: Guardian article 29/6/96

Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 12:27:13 -0500 (EST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

here is another YES vote for posting that guardian interview with

anne. go for it!

 

**--==--** melanthe alexian **--==--**

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n088.2 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: 57 varieties of HC?

Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 16:05:34 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Phil West wrote:

 

> So what's up? Are there several different pan/scans?

 

Hmm...I'd say it probably depends on how HC was originally shot.

 

If it was shot in some kind of full frame (1.33:1) format (like Super 35),

then "matted" for its theatrical presentation (That is, had part of the

top and bottom of the image covered up in order to give it a 2.35:1 aspect

ratio when projected), then that gives a lot more flexibility in

transfering it to video. If you want, you can just "unmask" the film,

restoring it to its original 1.33 ratio, then transfer it to video

without much panning and scanning at all. You'll actually be seeing more

image information than was shown in the theater (mostly added at the

bottom of the frame), and more than you would get if the picture was

letterboxed. James Cameron is fond of shooting this way, which then

allows him to transfer his films to video without losing critical

information. Scorsese has also taken to this method, after his

switch to widescreen photography.

 

If, however, a film is shot in some kind of anamorphic widescreen format,

then its wysiwig. It's a 2.35 frame, and that's that. No more visual

info anywhere. If you transfer it to video, you must either pan and scan

it rather severely, or letterbox it.

 

If you're seeing a P&S version of HC which doesn't appear to be cropped

at the sides (i.e., can you see both girls at once when they sit across

from each other in the tub during Paul's poem), then the film must have

been shot in a matted format, and then unmasked for the video transfer.

 

However, since some people are also complaining about cropping in the US

version, I can only assume that some fool transferred it as if it was an

anamorphic film, failing to take advantage of the extra image info that

was originally shot.

 

Allow me to arch my eyebrows ala Juliet and say that I've never watched

a videotape version of this film. Neither should you. Buy a laser

player now. Then we'll be able to get more people involved in a campaign

to have the Criterion Collection release a super special edition of this

movie. Imagine running audio commentary by Jackson, Walsh, Lynskey,

Winslet, et al. Behind-the-scenes photos. Trailers, featurettes.

Excised scenes. It would be glorious.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n088.3 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: [Fwd: Re: Guardian article 29/6/96]

Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 17:23:55 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: message/rfc822

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Disposition: inline

 

X-Mozilla-Status: 0001

Message-ID: <320B75D4.1A4F@earthlink.net>

Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:31:00 -0700

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U)

MIME-Version: 1.0

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Subject: Re: Guardian article 29/6/96

References: <199608082250.PAA20125@lists1.best.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Eric or Ann Kingman wrote:

 

> I'm delurking to ask if the article mentioned in the quote below from Paul

> that appeared in the last digest is available anywhere online, or if someone

> would be so kind as to mail or fax me a copy.

>

> Many thanks..

 

Yes, The Guardian article, June 29, 1996 is an article that was supposed to

appeared in the New Yorker (to be published) mentioned by John Porter--this

tip was from Sandra Bowdler who was suppose to fax me a copy (sorry Sandra,

my computer is down)--I think she is either sending it me by snail mail or

planning to post it soon.

 

She had also tipped me of a new article about "Heavenly Creatures" by John

McCarthy in Mystery Scene mag #53. I am in the process of ordering this

magazine direct. I'll post them when I get them.

 

Please continue to send in articles or infos of such. Thanks.

 

--

Anne Perry is writing a fantasy novel; Peter Jackson wants to do another

true-crime movie; Kate Winslet will be totally nude; Mush is making me gush.

-lybao@earthlink.net (he who dies with the most taglines dies)

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n088.4 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Guardian article

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 10:09:01 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

I promised a couple of people I would fax/snail mail this to them - anyone

else interested, let me have your relevant number/address, and I'll get on

to it.

 

cheers

Sandra

 

sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n088 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Sun Aug 11 15:01:50 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA16558 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:01:47 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (root@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA14993; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:01:08 -0700

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:01:08 -0700

Message-Id: <199608112201.PAA14993@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n089

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n089 --------------

 

001 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: those 57 varieties of HC

002 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Anne Perry article

003 - Clscflm@aol.com - Guardian

004 - MrS1fDstrc@aol.com - Why you should NOT buy a laser disc player

005 - MrS1fDstrc@aol.com - More HC variations & Intense games

006 - mpellas@sgi.net (Michael - Miss Perry

007 - Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.o - Re: Miss Perry

008 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Pauline's poetry (warning: lecture-length!)

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.1 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: those 57 varieties of HC

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 22:44:16 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Dear Jefferson/ All Creatures Great and even Greater...

 

Aha! So it looks like the British home video is the full frame one.

Cool. Now you come to mention it, I do recall that when I saw HC in a

theatre a few weeks ago, there was less at the bottom of the screen than I

am used to. At the time I put it down to dodgy projection (not that it

spoilt the film at all), but I think now that I was seeing the 'correct'

framing for the first time. The general effect of a narrower picture was

to emphasize the darker moments; it felt *even* more like seeing the world

through Pauline's eyes. Quite frightening, actually.

 

A Criterion Collection Super Special edition??!! A laserdisc

player??!! Do you mind!!! This film has already cost me an arm and a

leg! Two months ago I owned an ancient portable TV which sat miserably in

one corner of my room. Since falling in love with this wretched film,

I've bought a second-hand VCR, a new TV, and a snazzy cabinet to put 'em

on! It's not so much that I couldn't live without HC in its full glory

('We're not going to be separated!'), but it certainly spurred me on to

revitalise my electronics. What a terrible temptation it would be if a

superdisc emerged. Perhaps we should send requests for favourite

behind-the-scenes moments... Footage of Melanie practising wrinkling

up her nose in front of a mirror?? Now where was that laserdisc dealer...

 

Yet another question. Having established that it's the full frame

version, explain to me why I have the Ilam garden party scene and Bloody

Bill moving in ('Hullo!) - but not Henry Hulme breaking down - or any of

the other magic 5 scenes Jean Guerin mentioned way back (22 April). I

suspect yet another cut.

 

Or alternatively, don't! That's quite enough technicalities. Let's get

back to sheer adulation. I'm off to dream up some adjectives (and

adverbs).

 

Fentustically yours

 

Phil

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.2 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: Anne Perry article

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 23:01:42 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

To everyone who asked about the Anne Perry article in the Guardian

- Kate, Ann, Thai, Nancy, Mela - thanks for your interest. I nearly

fainted in the newspaper shop when I first saw it (there's a huge piccy

of A.P. on the cover of the arts supplement bit), as this was only a few

days after I had read the FAQ and found out who Anne Perry was. I had a

terrible job not to go 'Aaah!!!'

 

I see Sandra is being the good angel via normal mail (we have postal

strikes in England, by the way). But I will still post it to the mailing

list once I make sure the copyright folk aren't going to throw me into

Mount Eden for 5 years for doing so.

 

Phil

 

---

P.S. Today I was chatting to an old friend who has gone Harry and moved

to Vienna (not the sewers, though). As England are currently playing

Pakistan at cricket, we got round to talking about our cricketing days of

a few years ago and he mentioned someone I had completely forgotten about,

a nice New Zealand doctor who used to play for us occasionally, by the

name of... *R. Medlicott*... from a family of New Zealand doctors...

 

His name was Richard, not Reginald, but I wonder... Spooky. I have

visions of Richard turning up one day with a huge wadge of great-uncle

Reg's psychiatry notes, saying, 'Found these in the loft at home, odd

stuff, something about a murder and Mario Lanza...'.

Nice dream. Richard: are you out there?

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.3 ---------------

 

From: Clscflm@aol.com

Subject: Guardian

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 18:55:38 -0400

 

Is the 29 June 96 Manchester Guardian article on Anne Perry available on any

of the Web sites - or anywhere on the Net? Some of us aren't as near to

University libraries as we once were.

 

Thanks in advance,

ClscFlm

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.4 ---------------

 

From: MrS1fDstrc@aol.com

Subject: Why you should NOT buy a laser disc player

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 00:49:00 -0400

 

I apoligize in advance that this post gets a little off the topic, but I

think it contains information you would all be interested in. If you watch a

lot of movies, and movies are very important to you (and it seems this would

be most of you), and have been considering buying a laser disc player, I

think you'd like to know a little about the new DVD system first.

 

"Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org> wrote

 

>Allow me to arch my eyebrows ala Juliet and say that I've >never watched

>a videotape version of this film. Neither should you. Buy a >laser

>player now. Then we'll be able to get more people involved in >a campaign

>to have the Criterion Collection release a super special >edition of this

>movie. Imagine running audio commentary by Jackson, Walsh, >Lynskey,

>Winslet, et al. Behind-the-scenes photos. Trailers, >featurettes.

>Excised scenes. It would be glorious.

 

I have thought about buying a laser disc player for a long time now, but

I have never bought one, and I'm glad. At this point buying a laser disc

player would be kind of a waste. As I mentioned in my post about the

differences between the Starz and video versions of HC, the DVD players are

coming out soon.

Digital Video Discs or DVD's are far superior to laser disc's in almost

every way. They are superior in both picture and sound quality. They will

be the first widely used digital video format (Sony and several other

companies started offering high-end digital video camcorders earlier this

year, but they are used mostly by professionals). Laser discs do not have

digital picture, but they do have digital sound. I didn't believe it when I

first heard that laser discs did not have digital video, but then I read an

article in Stereo Review magazine which explained it. I don't remember the

specifics, but laser discs use analog video converted to an FM signal and

somehow recorded on the laser disc. When the disc is played, the signal is

converted back to analog video. Something like that anyway, as I said I

don't remember the specifics.

Not only do DVD's have better picture and sound, they are also much more

convenient and offer more features. Laser discs are huge, and most movies

require at least two sides of a disc, and often require additional discs.

With laser discs, you can't just pop in a movie and watch, you have to flip

sides and change discs. DVD's are the same size as a CD (about 5 inches in

diameter) and they can store an entire movie on one side of a disc.

Finally, DVD's will have some reaaly incredible added features. They

are compatible with the DVD computer drives that will hit stores at about the

same time as the movie players. Since they can be used in your computer, it

would be possible to store extra files on the disc which are accessible by

computer. Some possible uses for this would be bios of cast and crew, the

script, production notes, photos, reviews, etc., and in the case of a

fact-based like HC, news clipping and info about the real events. DVD's will

allow both the letterboxed and pan-and-scan versions of a movie to be stored

on the same disc, and you can switch between the two at the touch of a

button. DVD's allow up to 7 different audio tracks (I think it's 7, it seems

like I just heard it was up to 20) so a movie could have several different

language versions on the same disc, or there could be a running commentary by

the director, stars, writers, etc.

The first DVD players are scheduled to be released this fall for $500

(about what you'd pay for an avarage laser disc player) on up. Sony,

Panasonic, JVC, Hitachi, Phillips and several other large electronics

companies plan to develop DVD systems. I think Panasonic will be the first

to release one in September. I don't know how much the individual movies

will cost, but I would think it would be about $15- $25 based on current CD

and video prices. That's a lot better than the minimum of $35 you'll pay for

a laser disc, or the $100-$200 you'll pay for a deluxe laser disc.

I think that we should all wait for the DVD players to come out, and see

if Criterion will release a special deluxe Heavenly Creatures disc. It would

be cheaper, more convenient, and have more features than a deluxe laser disc.

That's just my opinion though. I'd be glad to know what everyone else

thinks. Again, I'm sorry about writing such a long message that doesn't

really heve much to do with HC.

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.5 ---------------

 

From: MrS1fDstrc@aol.com

Subject: More HC variations & Intense games

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 01:53:09 -0400

 

You may not care, but in case you do I'm listing some more differences I

have found between the Starz and video versions of Heavenly Creatures. Most

of the differences are in the way the film was scanned. I keep seeing things

that make it look like they were trying to get some close-ups for the video

that were wide shots on the Starz version

- The sign at Ilam that is shown during Paul's first visit is cut off on the

video, but is very clearly shown in the Starz version.

- In the Starz version there is nudity, but on the video there isn't. In the

Starz version, we see Pauline's breasts as she rises from the bed after

losing her viriginity for sure to John/Nicholas. On the video that shot is

from the neck up. Also, in the numerous bathtub scenes, the girls' breasts

are often visible through the water in the Starz version, but on the video,

basically all those shots are close-ups of the girls' faces.

- In the video, the date is shown in various scenes at the bottom of the

screen, but I don't believe it shows the dates on the Starz version (I would

have to watch it again to be sure).

Jeff Morris explained about how the two versions may have been scanned

from a masked version of a Suoer 35 print for one (which would require

cutting the edges off or letterboxing) and the other version was scanned from

an unmasked version of the same print which would require only a very small

amount of the edge to be cut off. I wasn't aware that that was done, I

thought everything was just filmed in one of the standard wide screen

formats.

These different scanning methods would explain most of the differences

between the two versions I've seen, but not all. This would not explain why

the title screens were different, or why the scene with the man in the

hospital coughing up blood was not on the video version. Also this would not

explain why the dates aren't shown on Starz (but like I said, I'm not sure

about that).

From what I've seen, the video could have probably recieved a PG-13

rating because it ommits the nudity and the scene of the man coughing up

blood. In the video version, the bloody murder of Honora seems to be the

only reason why it was rated R. But that may not have been how it was shown

in theaters. I never saw it in the theater, so I don't know.

 

Now for the second part of this message. There has been some

discussion about intense, complex games people have played which are similar

to the ones the girls played in HC. While I have never played one of these

games, today I was able to get a littl better understanding of how involved

these things are. I was at work today, and I was talking to a couple of

friends on break. They aren't people that I know too well, so I don't know a

whole lot about them. They started talking about how they play Dungeons and

Dragons a lot, and one of them started talking about some new vampire role

playing game he was playing.

He talked about the game for quite a while, and as he talked about it he

told us what he had done in it. He didn't say anything really wierd or

anything, it was just how detailed all of the events were. He was describing

things as if they had actually happened. The game apparently takes place in

the real world, but the players can be immortals, vampires, or humans and

they can go anywhere and do anything. He talked about the places he went and

the things he did in the game, but since they were all real places, places

that are around where I live, it got cunfusing sometimes whether he was

talking about reality or the game. He seemed to really love playing it and

being able to do what he wanted however he wanted to do it. Since they use

actual places that are all local, the places and people are things they know,

it makes it even more realistic to them.

I'm not sure about the details of the game, so I'm not sure I got

everything right, but that's not the point. I saw how involved these games

can get. As I said, there wasn't anything specific that he said, it was just

the way he talked about the game, as if all the events had actually happened.

Not having ever played any of these games, I don't have much understanding

of them though.

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.6 ---------------

 

From: mpellas@sgi.net (Michael Pellas)

Subject: Miss Perry

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 04:40:45 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Question to anyone who can answer:

 

Are the similarities between Juliet's pen name and the man her mother had

the affair with intentional? Did her mother get re-married? I haven't been

hanging around the list that long...so I might be missing some information...

 

michael

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.7 ---------------

 

From: Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>

Subject: Re: Miss Perry

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 06:51:14 -0700 (PDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Are the similarities between Juliet's pen name and the man her mother had

>the affair with intentional? Did her mother get re-married? I haven't been

>hanging around the list that long...so I might be missing some information...

 

Yes, after she was released I believe she was given a new identity. By

that time her mother was married to Walter Perry, and she just took up his

last name. This close connection to her old identity was one of the main

reasons that she was so easily found later on. Not that it wasn't silently

known around the publishing world.

 

-Thai

----------------------------

"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..

It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow

you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~

 

Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)

---------------------------

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n089.8 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: Pauline's poetry (warning: lecture-length!)

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:40:35 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I decided that the HC mailing list needs a literary criticism class, so

'SIT-TT.' Here are a few weekend thoughts on 'The Ones that I Worship',

as delivered exquisitely by Melanie Lynskey (ah, if only it were on the

soundtrack. If they can put Emma Thompson reading Shakespeare on the

'Much Ado About Nothing' s/t, then I don't see why we can't have Melanie.)

I know the FAQ says Pauline's poetry was psychoanalysed to death, but I

can't help that - I just think it's a good poem and a lot more interesting

than Medlicott's grumpy comment ('extraordinarily exalted') makes out.

 

Typical of Pauline, I think, to call it 'The Ones that I Worship', when in

fact it isn't about 'Ones' at all, but very definitely about a *Two*, and

the wonderful togetherness of a special pair - 'two beautiful daughters',

'these lovely two', &c. Why 'Ones', then? As I see it, part of the

poem's representation of the girls is that it wants to lavish as many

grand-sounding words as possible on them in rapturous celebration of their

'sweet soothingness'. Hence verbal 'redundancies' (tautologies,

repetitions, &c) run high. 'The Ones that I Worship' could quite easily

be reduced to 'Those I Worship', but it loses that extra noun with its

(naively) impressive monumentality. (Consider how the tautology in 'We

have had it in our possession for about six months' acts to create a real,

existing, wonderful thing called 'our possession'). In the same way,

Paul's diary is full of repetitions of 'we' this and 'our' that, as the

simple enscription of the plural pronoun gradually became an emotionally

significant act for her - in other words, as she fell (in ways which I

needn't go into, I'm sure) in love. Like doodling the name of a loved one,

or the pastoral cliche of carving a name in the bark of a tree. Only a

little more intense...

 

RHYTHM. The rhythms are wonderfully irregular, and though some lines come

close to standard poetic metre, there is no regularity about which ones!

Try scanning a line yourself, and see if you think there are 4 or 5

stresses in a line (or both); and then there are those 'fourteener'

lines (16-17, the most regular in the poem, cut in the film) with 7.

Pauline uses both trochaic and iambic feet - groups of three and two

syllables, basically - and runs wild with extra syllables whenever the

fancy takes her. This lack of regularity isn't a problem (though I expect

the psychiatrists of the 50s thought it a sign of deep disturbance or

anarchic tendencies, or something), in fact it's part of the charm of the

thing. And yet certain other formal features show an awareness of

regularities, especially the implied stanza form of 4-4-3, 4-4-3 lines,

with care taken to rhyme lines 11 and 22. What I'm saying is that I think

the irregular rhythm is quite deliberate and quite astonishing for a 15

year old. (If you don't think the rhythm is important, try this *dridful*

metrical rewrite of lines 5-8 (with apologies to PYP):

'You cannot know, nor try to guess

The soothingness of their caress;

Th'outstanding genius of this pair

Is known by few, it is so rare.'

Hers is *much* better, and not just because of the different words.)

 

DEIXIS. The deictics in the poem (pointing words like 'this' and 'these')

are crucial, delightedly gesturing at its beautiful subjects. 'There are

living', 'this pair', 'these wonderful people' - that's a lot of pointing

for one short poem to do, and strikes me as an extension of Pauline's

desire to lavish loving words on the special relationship (not to mention

the special significance of words like 'This' and 'That' for the girls).

Each deictic is caught up in expressing the greatness of the two - their

genius, their highness over man(kind), that they are Goddesses, that they

are lovely. They name them intently, and particularly their proximity -

they're definitely close by, here, not there; 'these', not 'those'.

That's why the last line can make such a gentle and tender turn, because

for the first time a proximate deictic ('these wonderful people') morphs

into the poem's speaking voice, 'I' ('are you and I'), something the poem

has been leading us to expect. Since the first line, the 'lovely two'

have been referred to in the third person, but all these proximate

deictics have established that they are very close to the narrator; now,

at last, our suspicions are happily confirmed, and the second person

singular appears for the first time. So - it was written for Juliet all

the time, for the 'you' who has been the invisible addressee until this

last, revealing, remarkable line. Shivers, please.

 

Hmm, well, that's the first couple of things I could think of (there's a

lot I could say about this poem, and I haven't even got going on the

diary prose yet, which is even more remarkable - now there's a threat...).

If anyone can suggest any influences on Pauline's poetry, please do,

'cause I'm stumped. Although I've done some work on 1920s and 30s poets,

my speciality is English Civil War poetry, which is precisely 300 years

out.

 

Juliet/Anne's favourite poets were/are the 'Georgians', like Rupert Brooke

and G.K. Chesterton, who certainly went in for the sorts of alliterative

effects Pauline uses; but they've little else in common, especially in

formal matters (though there are a few quite surprisingly gentle love

poems worth a quick look. I've even found things in some Georgian poets -

James Elroy Flecker, I think - like 'burning bright brown eyes', but I

suspect this could be done with almost any poetry). So who were Pauline's

models or preferred poets? Other influences - hymn words? (her vocabulary

betrays her Christian background), opera libretto? Or was she just

(albeit briefly) a bit of an original? Whaddya think?

 

Lesson over. I'm off to the staff room to cadge a cup of tea from that

nice art teacher. Never mind, it's Phys. Ed. next. 'Left, right..'

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n089 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Mon Aug 12 16:49:29 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA03823 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:49:18 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA00493; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:07:13 -0700

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:07:13 -0700

Message-Id: <199608122007.NAA00493@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n090

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n090 --------------

 

001 - dg acosta <opensesame@ear - CANCEL Digest heavenly-c.v001.n089

002 - kate ann jacobson <kjac@u - Re: Pauline's poetry

003 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Miss Perry

004 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Miss Perry

005 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Miss Perry

006 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - OFF: Heavenly Discs

007 - Michaela Rhea Drapes <ole - RE: Miss Perry

008 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - OFF: Whoops

009 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Miss Perry

010 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Anne Perry: National Review 01-01-96

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.1 ---------------

 

From: dg acosta <opensesame@earthlink.net>

Subject: CANCEL Digest heavenly-c.v001.n089

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 17:30:25 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

CANCEL

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.2 ---------------

 

From: kate ann jacobson <kjac@unm.edu>

Subject: Re: Pauline's poetry

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 20:33:25 -0600 (MDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

Phil, that was quite incredible! I've had that poem taped to my

refrigerator for ages, and never noticed many of the things you said.

 

> So who were Pauline's models or preferred poets? Other influences -

> hymn words? (her vocabulary betrays her Christian background), opera

> libretto? Or was she just (albeit briefly) a bit of an original?

> Whadda ya think?

 

Well, I'm not much of an expert on poetry, either, except for Yeats, and

I haven't heard anywhere which ones Pauline read privately. However, I'm

guessing Paul's motives in writing this poem were not to imitate her favorite

authors (though of course that may have come out) but to find a perfect

expression for her feelings about Juliet. And I think the place she found

the perfect vocabulary, was. in fact, in church. Hence the phrases "worship"

"above us these goddesses reign on high", "heavenly creatures" "hatred for

enemies" "the most glorious beings in creation", "adoring love known to so

few". These phrases make the poem sound like a very hymn itself to me,

and the ending revelation, "these wonderful people are you and I", sort of

seems like she and Juliet are human and immortal in one, just like Christ

was God and man in one. Could two people be any closer than that?

 

In short, I think Pauline was influenced by the world around her in all

of her writing, and perhaps even through politics a little. I think one

of her diary entries resembled one of Winston Churchill's speeches, and there

is also the line from the poem. "they'd be the pride and joy of any nation".

Of course, it is really hard to know, what, if any, poets she was influenced

by since she hardly mentions any. I think she was an original, too, and maybe

in the world she lived in with Juliet, there was no need for any rules

but their own.

 

- kate

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.3 ---------------

 

From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au

Subject: Re: Miss Perry

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:16:51 +0930

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 

To whoever was just talking about the use of Walter Perry's surname by

Juliet when she went back to England - has anyone mentioned that in HC,

during French class, when she gets to choose her own name, she calls

herself 'Antoinette'? There is probably no connection, and PJ probably

just made the name up, but I wonder if he knew of Miss Perry's new

name when he or Fran wrote this part. Is there any relation between the

use of 'Antoinette' in the the film and 'Anne' in real life? My guess is

just that PJ or FW already knew of Miss Perry's identity and wanted to

throw in a few clues to an audience which probably contained one or two

obsessive HC fans who would spend hours scanning through their copies of

the HC FAQ to find out if there were any explanations for the use of such

a name.

 

So now I am compelled to ask : At just what point *did* the writers of HC

discover Miss Perry? Did they find her in sufficient time to deliberately

include references to her in the film?

 

Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>

 

'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.4 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: Miss Perry

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:36:55 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

 

Hello all,

 

Peter Jackson, in his interviews, has been at great pains to insist that

he did NOT want anyone to track down Juliet or Pauline in their new

personae. My impression is that this was, and is, a sincere view.

 

There is some evidence somewhere (perhaps in one of mad Medlicott's

papers) that the real life Juliet did indeed use the name Antoinette at

some time.

 

cheers

sb

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.5 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: Miss Perry

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:47:59 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 12 Aug 1996 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au wrote:

 

> To whoever was just talking about the use of Walter Perry's surname by

> Juliet when she went back to England - has anyone mentioned that in HC,

> during French class, when she gets to choose her own name, she calls

> herself 'Antoinette'...[snip]...My guess is

> just that PJ or FW already knew of Miss Perry's identity and wanted to

> throw in a few clues to an audience which probably contained one or two

> obsessive HC fans who would spend hours scanning through their copies of

> the HC FAQ to find out if there were any explanations for the use of such

> a name.

 

An interesting idea, but I seriously doubt that this was put in by J&W as

some kind of 'clue' as to Juliet's current identity. They seemed quite

concerned that her identity be kept secret. I don't know the details of

exactly how it leaked out.

 

> So now I am compelled to ask : At just what point *did* the writers of HC

> discover Miss Perry? Did they find her in sufficient time to deliberately

> include references to her in the film?

 

I believe they discovered her during the process of researching the

script, so technically it would have been possible to include references

to her if they'd wanted to.

 

It would be interesting to find out if Juliet's use of the name 'Antoinette'

is historically documented, or if it's something J&W invented. I always

connected it with Marie Antoinette, and thought of the name as just another

way for the somewhat haughty Juliet to emphasize her "royalty" and

superiority over her kiwi classmates (and teachers, for that matter).

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.6 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: OFF: Heavenly Discs

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:05:33 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 MrS1fDstrc@aol.com wrote:

 

> Digital Video Discs or DVD's are far superior to laser disc's in almost

> every way. They are superior in both picture and sound quality.

 

If this is true, then they sure must have spruced up DVD's since I last

saw one a few months ago. It was a little disc of 'Apocalypse Now' and

it looked godawful. Lower resolution than VHS, as far as I could see.

This was simply because they hadn't found a way to compress the format

sufficiently. What I saw was not in any way competitive with the quality

of laser.

 

I was wondering if you'd witnessed one of these DVD's firsthand, or if

not, where you're getting your information from.

 

> Laser discs do not have

> digital picture, but they do have digital sound.

 

This is true. If discs had digital pictures, they'd only run about 6

minutes on a side. And if memory serves, a laserdisc has 40 gigabytes of

storage per side. So in order to have digital picture and sound at a

quality equal to or greater than laserdiscs, DVD's would have to have at

least 40 gigs of space on a single side. I wasn't under the impression that

DVD manufacturers had gotten this far with the technology yet.

 

A CD only has a capacity of 600 megs, so these DVD's will most assuredly

not be compatible with any CD-ROM drive you may have in your computer now.

 

> The first DVD players are scheduled to be released this fall for $500

> (about what you'd pay for an avarage laser disc player) on up.

 

Actually, you can get laser players for as low as $300 now.

 

I bought my player back in 1992 for $400, and back then people were

telling me that HDTV was right around the corner, so why should I bother?

Digital video will be here in a manner of months, right? Well, they were

wrong. And when those nifty HDTV sets which are capable to taking advantage of

all this digital data are actually released, they'll probably retail for

an absolute minimum of $5000. Although you don't have to have an HDTV

set to watch a DVD.

 

We should also keep in mind that it will take some time for manufacturers

to build a decent library of software for DVD. If you're waiting for a

special DVD of 'Heavenly Creatures,' you may have to wait a long, long time.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.7 ---------------

 

From: Michaela Rhea Drapes <oleanna@mail.utexas.edu>

Subject: RE: Miss Perry

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:26:19 -0600

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

On Monday, August 12, 1996 6:47 AM, Jefferson F. Morris[SMTP:jfmorris@CapAccess.org] wrote:

>It would be interesting to find out if Juliet's use of the name 'Antoinette'

>is historically documented, or if it's something J&W invented. I always

>connected it with Marie Antoinette, and thought of the name as just another

>way for the somewhat haughty Juliet to emphasize her "royalty" and

>superiority over her kiwi classmates (and teachers, for that matter).

 

I think its mentioned in the FAQ somewhere that Juliet had a well-known love of the French Revolution,

and I read somewhere that Anne Perry was thinking of writing in that time period before deciding on

Victorian England for her mystery novels, and she has said that she would like to write about the Revolution

era.

 

regards,

michaela

 

----

Michaela R. Drapes

oleanna@mail.utexas.edu michaela@cibola.net

http://www2.cibola.net/~michaela

"I do not think you can catch me, for I am super-freaky."

-Artie, the strongest man in the World, "The Adventures of Pete and Pete"

---

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.8 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: OFF: Whoops

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 14:55:19 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, I foolishly wrote:

 

> If this is true, then they sure must have spruced up DVD's since I last

> saw one a few months ago. It was a little disc of 'Apocalypse Now' and

> it looked godawful.

 

I just now remembered that it was probably a Philips CDV I was looking

at, and not a DVD. So never mind that part.

 

If DVD's can do all they say, then they sound pretty good. But I

wouldn't be surprised if they don't show up quite on schedule.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.9 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Miss Perry

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:55:07 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jefferson F. Morris wrote:

 

> An interesting idea, but I seriously doubt that this was put in by J&W as

> some kind of 'clue' as to Juliet's current identity. They seemed quite

> concerned that her identity be kept secret. I don't know the details of

> exactly how it leaked out.

 

I've read that Juliet's new identity, Anne Perry, was known by those

authorities on the case and a few others connected to it--for example, I

believe some of the journalists who have been investigating the trial knew

and the prison guard knew also. The rumor was leaked out from a play, as

you all know well now, "Daughters of Heaven". In Scenario magazine it

mentioned this. And I quote: "A friend of Juliet's , who was still writing

to her, confided in one of the actors that Juliet Hulme was now writing

murder mysteries as Anne Perry. That rumor flew around the acting community

her in New Zealand, and it reached our [J&W] ears on the set..."

 

Peter and Frances went on to talked about the Miramax ads that ran in

America regarding Juliet's new identity...one in particular, titled

"Murder She Wrote". I am still looking for this one--it is in the New York

Times. I still haven't found out the date which it appeared yet. But I'll

find it sooner or later.

 

Sorry if this sounds a little outta whack. My computer is totally tweaked,

so I can't provide you all some of the sources and info I that have. I'm

surprise it hasn't crash yet!

 

--

"To those who understand, no explanation is necessary. To those

who will not understand, no explanation is possible." lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n090.10 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Anne Perry: National Review 01-01-96

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:10:40 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

A little knowledge.

 

A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE

 

Cain His Brother by Anne Perry (Fawcette Columbine, 390 pp., $22.95)

 

Traitors Gate by Anne Perry (Fawcette Columbine, 411 pp., $21.50)

 

 

 

``AN incredible three million copies of her books have been sold in

America,'' boast Anne Perry's British publishers. Incredible, no; if they

say so, I believe them. A bit puzzling, yes; the reason for such

popularity is not altogether clear. But the operative word in that boast

is ``America.'' Although Miss Perry is a British writer, living in Britain,

her books are much less well known on the eastern side of the Atlantic.

And that's not puzzling at all. Her novels, set in Victorian London, are

-- like those of Martha Grimes, an American mystery writer who has set

nearly all her books in Britain -- full of slight solecisms and anomalies

liable to set sensitive English teeth on edge. They have been praised by

the upmarket American press for their historical authenticity and

atmospheric plausibility but authentic and plausible, to anyone with the

slightest knowledge of the period, they are certainly not.

 

Miss Perry's books fall into two, scarcely distinguishable, series, both

featuring police detectives who pursue their investigations through foggy

streets to the clip-clop of hansom cabs, from the drawing rooms of Mayfair

to the stews of Limehouse. In the latest, Cain His Brother, ex-Inspector

Monk (now an ``Agent of Inquiry,'' long before Sherlock Holmes claimed to

be the only ``consulting detective'' in the world) searches for a missing

man in the fever-ridden slums of the East End. His quarry, a saintly

character, had an evil twin brother, who may have murdered him: but there

is no body, and the villain is quite confident that none will be found.

A trial ensues nevertheless, with a melodramatic denouement. The mood is

gloomy throughout, and, squalor being squalor, well-founded in

sociologically inclined history books. So far, so plausible -- until the

narrative moves into the more socially complex regions of the Bar and the

professional classes, where it suddenly becomes apparent that the author

does not know what she's talking about. London barristers don't have

``offices'' in a street near Lincoln's Inn Fields: they had, and have,

chambers in one of the Inns of Court. They don't ``approach the witness

stand'' like Perry Mason. Nor are English clergymen called ``Reverend

Wyndham'' -- or, at least, they weren't before Hollywood' s influence.

 

In all Miss Perry's books, modern prejudices, particularly about class and

the position of women, are constantly insinuated and heavily emphasized.

Victorians, however radical, simply didn't think in those terms. Gentlemen,

she tells us, ``only dabbled, they did not actually work' '; which would

have astonished some very energetic Victorian gentlemen. As for women,

they were ``the weaker vessel, expected to weep, to lean on others'';

which would have amazed many tough-minded Victorian ladies. On the other

hand, no respectable Victorian man would ever have said ``what the hell''

in the presence of a lady. Still less would a respectable woman have used

such language herself (``bloody incompetent generals'').

 

The most recent book in Miss Perry's other series, Traitors Gate (why no

apostrophe?), set in higher social circles, was even more liable to such

solecisms. In it Superintendent Pitt, aided by his wife, Charlotte,

investigates a murder in a gentlemen's club. The crime involves Important

People: it touches on the colonial struggle for Africa and a sinister

anti-democratic conspiracy, the Inner Circle.

 

 

Miss Perry has conscientiously studied the background details. She knows

London's street plan, what songs were sung in the music halls, what

fashions the ladies wore: and she makes sure we know she knows. The effect

is spoiled by things in some ways less obscure but perhaps not quite so

readily swotted up. The club she writes about, crucial to the story, has

a ``manager'' and ``stewards,'' like an American club, not a ``secretary''

and ``waiters''; it has a ``foyer'' and a quite impossible inner room for

senior members only. The club's domestic arrangements are important because

they affect the solution, described as ``very clever and very efficient''

but in fact absurd.

 

Even that sort of thing might not matter if the Victorian feel were right.

There are some other curious Americanisms -- ``As close to Westminster as

we live'' (no Englishman, now or then, would insert the first ``as''),

``French doors'' instead of ``French windows,'' and (admittedly not often)

some hilariously dreadful dialogue -- ``Must be damned urgent to seek a

fellow out at his club, what?'' When a high flyer at the Colonial Office

is described as academically outstanding because he graduated from

Cambridge at age 23, one can only ask what took him so long. Again we

have the word ``bloody'' used in the presence of, indeed addressed to, a

lady.

 

Has Miss Perry never seen Pygmalion? Has she never read Victorian novels

-- Trollope, Wilkie Collins, The Dolly Dialogues, The Four Feathers, or

even the Sherlock Holmes stories? Or another, equally famous, Victorian

tale which had better not be named for fear of giving away the twist at

the end of Cain His Brother? The surprising answer is ``Possibly not.''

 

A glance at her biography, as given by the publishers, reveals that,

although seemingly a conventional middle-class, middle-aged Englishwoman,

she grew up in New Zealand, worked for a while in California, and now lives

in a remote Scottish village. But that's not all.

 

While Traitors Gate was in preparation a movie called Heavenly Creatures

was released, about a forty-year-old case, famous in New Zealand still,

in which two young girls, for psychologically obscure reasons, battered to

death the mother of one of them. A New Zealand reporter somehow got on the

trail of Miss Perry. When asked, she immediately admitted that she had

been one of those girls, though not the one whose mother was murdered. She

had served five and a half years in a women's prison, was released at age

21, returned to England, where she had been born, and changed her name.

 

She claims to remember little of the murder and to have long ago lost

touch with the other girl. She has never denied her identity but,

naturally enough, doesn't like talking about it. She has become a devoted

Christian. But she did miss out on a good deal of education. The publicity

that followed the revelation has been handled not so much discreetly as

carefully, with well-controlled articles and interviews. Everybody on both

sides of the Atlantic who is at all interested in her books now knows the

facts. Despite her initial unsophisticated fear that her publishers might

drop her if they knew, the story has predictably helped, not harmed, her

sales.

 

All credit to her for making a new life and a successful career. However,

I cannot help feeling, as she probably does, that it would be better, from

a literary as well as a personal point of view, if we didn't know. People

reading her books are now bound to ask: ``Can you tell?' '

 

The most spectacular parallel instance is that of James Morris, who

underwent a highly publicized sex change while writing his (or her)

trilogy about the British Empire. Nobody can read those excellent books

now without trying to see the join, the point where the sex change

happened. But there is no perceptible join. Nothing alters.

 

This provokes a much broader and deeper question about authors in general.

Which is the real person -- the one whose apparently intimate acquaintance

we make on the page, or the frequently disappointing figure whose hand we

may shake or whom we may see blathering on a television talk show? How do

we feel about a woman protagonist, perhaps narrating in the first person,

created by a male author -- or the other way around? Would we feel

differently were we unaware of the author's sex?

 

Are the currently fashionable courtroom thrillers distinctly better for

being written by lawyers? Or romans policiers for being written by

policemen? Erle Stanley Gardner was a lawyer and Dashiell Hammett had been

a private eye, but they both learned more from working on Black Mask

than from experience in the field. Carroll John Daly, the first begetter

of the hard-boiled thriller genre, was rather a nervous man who once

thought he should carry a pistol to see what it felt like -- and was

promptly arrested. Mystery fiction need not be realistic; realism is not

the point.

 

The same applies to espionage fiction. Some writers of good spy stories

did have experience in intelligence work, but you would never guess it

from their unrealistic tales. Yet John le Carre's not very happy time in

the British Secret Intelligence Service provided the pungency of his

novels. And the Rumpole stories would be much less fun if John Mortimer

were not so familiar with lawyers and judges.

 

So which is the rule and which are the exceptions? Truthfully, there is no

rule. Trying to deduce one leads only into what le Carre calls ``a

wilderness of mirrors.'' Homer and Shakespeare are enhanced, not

diminished, because we know so little about them. Anne Perry's work would

lose nothing if we knew less about her.

 

~~~~~~~~

 

By ANTHONY LEJEUNE Mr. Lejeune is NR's longtime London correspondent.

 

 

 

Copyright 1996 by National Review Inc. Text may not be copied without the

express written permission of National Review Inc.

 

Lejeune, Anthony, A little knowledge.., Vol. 48, National Review,

01-01-1996, pp 54.

 

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n090 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Tue Aug 13 02:25:35 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id CAA10734 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 02:25:33 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id CAA22952; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 02:23:48 -0700

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 02:23:48 -0700

Message-Id: <199608130923.CAA22952@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n091

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n091 --------------

 

001 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Anne Perry: Newsday 02-20-95

002 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Anne Perry: L.A. Times 11-27-94

003 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Anne Perry: USA Today 09-23-94

004 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Anne Perry: The Age 12-02-95

005 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - National Review reviewed, or The Sniper Sniped!

006 - Michaela Rhea Drapes <ole - more true crime films?

007 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Pauline's poetry

008 - kate ann jacobson <kjac@u - Re: Miss Perry

009 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Lyrics: Funiculì, funiculà!

010 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Lyrics: You'll Never Walk Alone

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.1 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Anne Perry: Newsday 02-20-95

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:55:29 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

New Controversy Over '50s Murder Crossfire in the press

over `Heavenly Creatures'

 

New Controversy Over '50s Murder

Crossfire in the press over `Heavenly Creatures'

 

By Bronwen Hruska. Bronwen Hruska is a free-lance writer.

 

 

IT'S A STORY of murder, hidden identity and, of course, public

relations.

In recent media appearances, including a "20/ 20" interview and New

York Times story, Anne Perry, a best-selling murder-mystery writer (with

a new book called "Traitor's Gate" to promote), lashed out against the

New Zealand filmmakers who wrote "Heavenly Creatures," about her and a

friend whose mother they killed.

Perry was identified last July as Juliet Hulme, who in 1954 was at

the center of New Zealand's infamous Parker-Hulme murder with her teen

friend Pauline. The Times article says Perry insists the film is a

"grotesque and distorted portrait of herself" and quotes her as calling

Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson (who have won an Oscar nomination for the

screenplay) "idiotic moviemakers."

She now denies making those accusations, but Walsh and Jackson, as

one might imagine, have a problem with the high-profile attacks from a

woman who has never seen the film.

Walsh bristles at the name-calling in the press. "We don't appreciate

being referred to as `idiotic moviemakers.' In all the interviews we've

done for the movie, we've treated her with absolute respect. And while

it's clear she has no respect for us."

When asked how she could trash the filmmakers without seeing the

movie, Perry replies, "That was an unfortunate quote, and I don't

remember saying it - it must have been the heat of the moment." And

Perry now denies ever calling the movie grotesque and distorted.

"It's too bad this has deteriorated to crossfire in the

press," said Walsh, speaking from her home in New Zealand. "But we do

feel compelled to defend our work. We tried so hard to get the research

right . . . We wanted to tell their story from a humanitarian

perspective to New Zealanders who've seen the girls as monsters all this

time. Unfortunately, Perry is feeling this pressure to deny things."

The movie explores an intense friendship that was threatened when

Parker's mother wouldn't let her move with Hulme to South Africa.

Killing Parker's mother seemed the only way for the girls to stay

together, and amazingly, the adolescent fantasy turned real when they

bludgeoned Honora Parker to death with a half-brick slung in a stocking.

The girls each served 5 1/2 years in prison and were released with new

names under the agreement they never see each other again.

Their identities had remained secret until a New Zealand journalist,

Lin Ferguson of The Sunday News, put together the pieces and found Perry

(who had taken her stepfather's last name) as the movie was playing at

festivals last July. Since then Perry has been profiled in numerous

publications and has used the media attention to own up to her past,

criticize the movie and, of course, pitch her books.

Among Perry's complaints with the movie: Her friendship with Parker

was not sexual or as intense as "Heavenly Creatures" makes it out to be.

'`It was a schoolgirl friendship," she says now, explaining she felt

indebted to the only friend who wrote her while she was hospitalized for

three months. Perry also blames a TB drug she was taking at the time for

clouding her judgment.

"I can understand why Perry has taken a sort of revisionist

approach," said Walsh. "Forty years on, she has a career to protect -

she's rebuilt her life, and the last thing she wants to do is justify

her actions as a fifteen-year-old."

Perry says she has no plans to see the movie. "It is all extremely

painful," she says of the film. "What others see as fair and objective

is not the way you see yourself."

Thanks to the publicity surrounding the movie, "Heavenly Creatures"

has grossed $2.3 million after four months in theaters, considered a

good sum for a small foreign film. And Perry, who has 3 million books in

print already, should expect sales of her newest book to rocket, given

that libraries in New Zealand haven't been able to keep them on the

shelves since Ferguson's story broke.

As Barbara Walters summed up the Anne Perry segment of "20 / 20" on

Feb. 10: "Boy, I never read her before. I sure want to now."

 

 

Copyright 1996, Newsday Inc.

 

Hruska, Bronwen, New Controversy Over '50s Murder Crossfire in the press over `Heavenly

Creatures'., Newsday, 02-20-1995, pp B03.

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.2 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Anne Perry: L.A. Times 11-27-94

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:12:46 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

FILM CLIPS; SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVILISH;

What's a Little Motherly Murder Between Friends?;

Home Edition

 

FILM CLIPS

SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVILISH

What's a Little Motherly Murder Between Friends?

By Emanuel Levy

 

Los Angeles Times Sunday November 27, 1994

Home Edition

Calendar, Page 28

Type of Material: Column

 

 

Peter Jackson, the 33-year-old New Zealand director, has been

mostly known to the film festival circuits for his offbeat sci-fi and

horror movies ("Bad Taste," "Dead Alive"), which went on to achieve

international cult status.

 

That reputation may change, however, with the release of his new film,

"Heavenly Creatures," a powerful dramatization of the 1954 Parker-Hulme

case, in which two New Zealand teen-age girls murdered the mother of one

of them. The film, which opened Wednesday, has already won the

prestigious Venice Film Festival Silver Lion and Toronto Film Festival

Metro Media Award.

 

The high-profile case, still called "New Zealand's most famous crime,"

has continued to fascinate the media--and public--for 40 years.

 

"But in all this time," Jackson says in a recent visit to Los Angeles,

"the story has never been told sympathetically." During the trial of

Pauline Parker, 15, and Juliet Hulme, 16 (played in the film by

first-time teen-age actresses Melanie Lynskey and Kate Winslet,

respectively) for the murder of Parker's mother, tabloids wrote mostly

titillating accounts of the crime itself and of the peculiar, possibly

lesbian, friendship between the girls.

 

Jackson's longtime collaborator Frances Walsh was the first to suggest

he tackle the subject on film. "I immediately fell in love with this

unusual tale," Jackson says. "I became obsessed with it."

 

From the start, Jackson decided to focus on the extraordinary

friendship between the girls rather than the end result, a gory murder

that sent them to prison. "Our intention was to make a film about an

intense relationship," Jackson says, "that went terribly wrong."

 

Jackson and Walsh began reading newspaper accounts of the trial, but

they quickly realized the lurid articles contained little useful

information. "In the 1950s, Pauline and Juliet were branded as the 'most

evil people,' " Jackson says. "What they had done seemed without rational

explanation--people assumed there was something wrong with their minds.

 

"The press labeled them the 'lesbian schoolgirl killers.' Criminal

psychology was at its most primitive. The public believed it was a case

of insanity, of homosexuality, mental illnesses you could recover from,

with the right treatment."

 

To achieve a more compassionate perspective, they undertook a massive

search for people who knew the girls. Their main sources were the court

records and Parker's diaries, in which she recorded thoughts about her

intense friendship with Hulme. Based on these diaries, the girls emerged

as two extremely intelligent and imaginative adolescents with a wicked,

irreverent humor. The entire voice-over in the film is based on Parker's

writings.

 

Jackson sees the film as non-judgmental: "These two girls were

innocent outcasts before they met, who became even more outcast once they

forged a friendship. They evolved their own secret code, their own

fantasy utopian milieu, an Arthurian kingdom."

 

As for the lesbian overtones, Jackson feels it was "natural for girls

of that age to take baths and sleep together," citing Parker's diaries,

in which she wrote, "we tried to enact the way saints would make love."

 

Up to the murder, Jackson's film embraces the girls' point of view

"because we wanted the audience not just to observe but to participate."

In the last segment, however, the camera backs off and the film becomes

more detached and stylized. "I can understand everything but their

motivation for the murder, everything until the leap they made from the

fantasy of killing to its reality."

 

Both women were convicted and spent five years in separate prisons.

"They were pardoned," says Jackson, "as it was clear to the authorities

they wouldn't offend again." Their release, however, was contingent on

their never seeing each other again. They never did.

 

About three years ago, when a sensationalistic play, "Daughters of

Heaven," was produced in New Zealand, a reporter familiar with the case

wrote a story for the Wellington Sunday News, describing Hulme's

whereabouts. Hulme--who had been living quietly in the Scottish Highlands

as successful British mystery writer Anne Perry--finally broke her

anonymity and gave an interview in the London Daily Telegraph, in which

she talked about the murder for the first time.

 

Pauline Parker was kept on parole until 1965, when she left New

Zealand after earning a degree in English. Her location and current

identity remain unknown. Jackson never tried to contact the women: "We

respect their privacy; we didn't want to invade it."

 

Film offers have been pouring in, but Jackson says that he has no

desire to go Hollywood. Yet his next picture, "The Frighteners," a comic

ghost thriller starring Michael J. Fox, will be for Universal and

produced by Robert Zemeckis. Jackson is holding out on at least one

issue, however: It is being shot in New Zealand.

 

 

 

Copyright, The Times Mirror Company; Los Angeles Times, 1994.

 

Levy, Emanuel, FILM CLIPS; SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVILISH; What's a Little Motherly

Murder Between Friends?; Home Edition., Los Angeles Times, 11-27-1994, pp 28.

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.3 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Anne Perry: USA Today 09-23-94

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:15:09 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Anne Perry forced to relive her own murder story

 

When mystery writer Anne Perry was 15 years old, she committed

murder. She and her friend, Pauline, killed Pauline's mother with

half a brick in a Christchurch, New Zealand, park.

Perry served 5 1/2 years in an adult women's prison. After her

release, she left New Zealand and has never returned. Pauline also

served her term and was released.

Now living in Scotland, Perry has fashioned a new life and a

successful career. Her two Victorian-era detective series - one

stars Inspector Pitt and his wife, Charlotte, the other William Monk

- have sold more than 3 million copies in the USA. The paperback

edition of A Sudden, Fearful Death is No. 39 on USA TODAY's

Best-Selling Books list. Her new hardcover, The Sins of the Wolf, is

in stores.

Although family and close friends knew about Perry's past, it

was never known to the general public, including her agent and her

U.S. publisher.

All that changed recently. An upcoming New Zealand film, Heavenly

Creatures, to be released in late November in the USA, deals with

the 1954 case. A New Zealand reporter uncovered Perry's previous

identity as Juliet Hulme.

"It was an absolute, unqualified nightmare," says Perry, 55, from

her home in Scotland. She was most fearful that this publicity would

kill her 82-year-old mother, who lives in the same small, isolated

village. "I had to call all the people I care about. That was

absolutely bloody."

Ironically, the biggest surprise for Perry has been the kindness

of her neighbors in the tiny town of Portmahomack. "There's been not

one unpleasant experience," she says. And the many supportive

letters she has received are from readers and booksellers,

particularly in the USA, where her popularity is greatest.

"This has been a great testament to the general kindness of

people," she says.

Perry insists she does not remember specifics of the actual

crime. The motivation behind the murder involved both Perry's

lengthy illnesses and her friend Pauline's threat to kill herself.

Plagued from childhood with chest problems - pneumonia and

bronchitis in particular - Perry was born in London but for health

reasons was sent to live in New Zealand with another family; her own

eventually joined her. She became very close to Pauline, who wrote

to Perry religiously after Perry was put in a sanitarium.

With her parents in the throes of divorce, Perry was about to

leave New Zealand for England with her father and her little

brother. Her father offered to take Pauline as well, but Pauline's

mother said no.

It was then that the two girls decided to kill the mother.

"I was afraid (Pauline) would die if she didn't come with us,"

Perry says. "I had a dramatic turn of the mind. It was pretty stupid

and very wrong but I did not want to let down the one friend who had

stood by me."

While Perry makes no excuses for herself, she does point out she

was on a medicine that was eventually taken off the market because

of its "judgment-altering qualities."

Perry has had no contact with Pauline for four decades, and says

she won't write a book about the murder because it would invade

Pauline's privacy. "I wish her well."

The case prompted a media feeding frenzy in New Zealand, Perry

says. She remains bitter about the publicity which she describes as

"very salacious." During the trial, the prosecution suggested that

the girls were more than just friends.

In conversation, it becomes apparent that Perry is a woean of

deep faith. At 26, while living in California, she became a Mormon

convert. She told the church about her past.

Perry insists she does not feel sorry for herself. While she was

held for 5 1/2 years in what she describes as "the toughest facility

they have," she notes that it was in prison that she recovered her

health. "Maybe I just outgrew all that illness."

And it was in prison that she says she got down on her knees and

truly regretted what she had done. But she doesn't want to dwell on

the past.

"I don't think being sorry is beating your breast all the time.

It's (deciding) from then on to live the very best life you know

how. And making jolly sure you forgive others. Never hold a grudge

and never leap to judgment yourself."

Now that her past is public knowledge, Perry says she would

consider speaking to teen-age criminals.

"What I would like to say is, please, never give up - the rest of

your life can be wonderful. . . . You can't alter yesterday but

tomorrow is yours."

The move to mysteries

Anne Perry did not begin writing murder mysteries because of her

past - she started because they were the only books she could get

published.

For 12 years, Perry wrote historical novels about a variety of

times and places that no one would publish. Her first book to be

accepted was The Cater Street Hangman, which launched the fictional

careers of Police Inspector Thomas Pitt and his high society wife,

Charlotte. Her other series involves William Monk, who solves crimes

but cannot solve the mystery of his own amnesia - and past.

In her new hardcover, The Sins of the Wolf (Fawcett, $21.50),

Perry writes about a young nurse named Hester Latterly being held in

a prison for a murder she did not commit.

In Newgate (prison), Hester swung from moods of hard-fought-for

hope, down to engulfing despair, and up the long incline back to

hope again. The boredom and the sense of helplessness were the worst

afflictions.

"I drew on my own memory of what (prison) was like . . . the

feelings of helplessness and fear," Perry says.

 

 

Copyright 1994, USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co., Inc.

 

Donahue, Deirdre, Anne Perry forced to relive her own murder story., USA TODAY,

09-23-1994,

pp 07.

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.4 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Anne Perry: The Age 12-02-95

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:27:19 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Murder they wrote

 

By Louise Chunn

 

Agenda 12.02.95

 

It was a crime that shocked the staid, God-fearing New Zealand community

of the 1950s. Forty years later a new film is stirring up old memories

many hoped had long been forgotten. Louise Chunn reports from Christchurch.

 

"It was the body of a middle-aged woman, lying on her back on the path,

with her head downhill. One of her shoes was off. Various articles were

lying around her. Her head was very severely injured, and a stream of

blood had flowed downhill and congealed. Her lower denture was lying near

her jaw. Her stockings were mud-stained, with perhaps some blood stains.

Both arms were mud-stained and blood- stained. A half brick was lying near

her head." 'Christchurch Star-Sun', 21 August 1954.

 

HONORA Mary Parker, 45, had died from shock associated with multiple

injuries to the head and fractures of the skull. As the crowded court in

Christchurch, New Zealand heard, it was the half brick tied up in a lisle

stocking and then left lying on the path in the park where she was killed

that had done it. Or rather, the half brick as wielded by the dead woman's

daughter, Pauline Yvonne Parker, 16, and her best friend, Juliet Marion

Hulme, 15.

 

The Parker-Hulme case stayed alive in the collective consciousness of New

Zealand, in spite of all manner of grisly and sensational murders since.

I was born in New Zealand two years after the trial, but I can't remember

not knowing about the (whisper it) lesbian teenage mother-killers of

Christchurch.< p>

 

Even now, as Peter Jackson's film of the events, 'Heavenly Creatures',

stirs up the controversy again, you can see just how much more shocking

it would have been in the God's own country of the mid- 1950s.

 

What the prosecuting counsel called a "coldly, callously planned murder

committed by two highly intelligent and sane, but precocious and

dirty-minded little girls", it shook that polite and repressed colonial

society to its newly-poured foundations.

 

The blow-by-blow press coverage of the trial clashed resoundingly with

everything around it. To make it worse, they were reporting it in the

English papers too. What would the folks back home think of them? Theirs

was a wholesome, unworldly place that produced good keen men of the sort

who could scale the highest mountain in the world, as Edmund Hillary had

done the year before not teenage girls who probably had sex with each

other.

 

But the case was not just about two girls whose adolescent friendship had

exceeded the normal bounds; it was about their families too. Although

Anglophiliac Christchurch would have heartily approved of upper- middle

class Brits like the Hulmes her father was rector at Canterbury

University it would not have liked hearing of their imminent divorce, nor

that the rather glamorous Hilda Hulme was having an affair with "friend of

the family" Bill Perry. It was probably less surprising, though no less

morally dubious, to discover that Pauline's working-class parents had,

after 23 years together, never married.

 

PAULINE PARKER and Juliet Hulme were seen as singularly evil. This not

only "explained" their crime, it also excused the country of culpability;

they were not real "kiwis" at all. The level of analysis during the six-day

trial was pitifully low: because of childhood illnesses (osteomyelitis and

chest infections), neither girl took part in sports at school. This,

insinuated the prosecution, was clear evidence of their deviance, as was

their refusal to join the flag-waving crowds in the streets when the

Queen visited Christchurch in 1953.

 

Instead, the girls created their own pageants, writing stories and operas,

making Plasticine models of knights and ladies, and play-acting in an

imaginary Fourth World. Lest this sound rather quaint and child-like,

their characters regularly slaughtered and raped their way across the

girls' imagination in increasingly blood-soaked adventures. They also

harbored major pashes for such cinema stars as Mario Lanza, James Mason

and Orson Welles. During the trial much was made of their fantasies,

especially any involving sex. It was widely assumed they were lesbians,

though their experimentation was probably no more than many teenage girls

get up to.

 

They sometimes slept in the same bed, they hugged each other when excited,

one night they practised "making love" the way their idols would.

 

Several doctors who gave evidence declared the couple paranoid and

delusional and claimed they should be found not guilty on the grounds of

their insanity. But several more said they knew exactly what they were

doing and what its effect would be. Pauline's diaries, though, left the

jury in little doubt about their forward planning for "moidering" mother:

"We have worked it out carefully and are both thrilled by the idea.

Naturally we feel a trifle nervous but the pleasure of anticipation is

great."

 

They were found guilty and only their youth saved them from the death

sentence. They were detained in separate adult prisons "at Her Majesty's

pleasure". After five and a half years they were released, on the condition

that they never see each other again. The Department of Justice gave them

both new identities. Juliet Hulme then left for Britain; Pauline Parker

stayed in New Zealand.

 

And that should have been the end of it. But the story is far too "sexy"

to just fade away. Its potent mixture of sex, family, youth and violence

was a gift for the media and the public has never tired of it. Fran Walsh

was about 12 when she first read one of the many newspaper features that

marked any anniversary of Honora Parker's murder. When she grew up to

become a scriptwriter, working with her real-life partner, director Peter

Jackson, it seemed only natural that Walsh turned to the Parker-Hulme case

as perfect film material.

 

Jackson and Walsh were not the only ones; there's been a play produced in

Wellington, a book, and two or three film scripts, including one

commissioned by Dustin Hoffman's production company. Given that someone

was going to make a film of it, they felt they could do the best job. But

they also worried that they would be accused of exploiting the girls or

glamorising the crime. "I feel a bit guilty making a film about the death

of someone's mother. It's not the sort of thing I would want made about

me," Jackson has said.

 

IN fact, the film is a remarkably sensitive creation. Using Pauline

Parker's diaries for the 18 months leading up to her mother's murder, the

script is true to the girls' beliefs and fantasies, but doesn't shrink

from showing in bloody detail what they did to Honora Parker.

 

It becomes obvious why they had killed her. With the Hulmes' divorce,

Juliet was being taken to live with an aunt in South Africa; Pauline

believed that if her mother was out of the way, she could go too. But they

never got around to thinking about how they would explain her mother's

death. Pauline had not even bothered to hide the diary which described in

a jolly schoolgirl tone mixed with Hollywood crime lingo what they had

planned.

 

In an interview Jackson gave shortly after the film was made, he stressed

how careful they had been to shield the current identities of Parker and

Hulme. Although he had no contact with them, he said: "The last thing I

want to happen is for them to be found and exposed".

 

But New Zealand is a small country and this story was an investigative

journalist's dream. It only took one indiscreet comment overheard at the

opening night of the play that was based on the case, for a tabloid

journalist to track down Juliet Hulme in the middle of last year. Now 55,

she lives alone in a small Scottish village where she is a devout Mormon

and well-respected member of the community; her mother lives five doors

away.

 

But that is not all of her story. Now called Anne Perry she took her

stepfather's name she is the author of 19 Victorian detective novels, with

a million-dollar publishing contract in the US. The headline must surely

have written itself: "Murder She Wrote! Best-selling British author's

grisly Kiwi past revealed," screamed 'The Sunday News'.

 

In the few damage limitation interviews she has given, Perry comes across

fairly sympathetically. While she doesn't deny her part in Honora Parker's

murder, she claims that the drugs she was taking for tuberculosis could

have altered her judgment. She says she has no memory of the murder or

trial, but once she was in prison started coming to terms with what she had

done. "The best way to fulfil being sorry is to make sure that you do the

best you can in every respect."

 

While she always hoped her story would not be discovered, she now feels

relatively sanguine about it: "In some ways it's the last step as far as

healing is concerned".

 

There was no sexual relationship between the two girls, she says: "Pauline

was a really good friend. We had all sorts of romantic dreams . . . but for

romance, give me men."

 

Jackson is determined Pauline Parker should not suffer the same fate. In

Auckland it is rumored that she converted to Catholicism and works in a

city bookshop, but Jackson says only: "She apparently has lived a life of

great regret and not a very happy life, either."

 

There is a sense in the film that she the working-class grammar-school girl

who was good at English is the less resilient of the two. While, at the end

of it all, her more glamorous friend still had her family and the

opportunity of a new life in Britain, Pauline Parker had lost everything.

Even her father had denounced her as "pure evil". -- The Guardian.

 

 

Back to The Sunday Age page

 

Back to The Age page

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.5 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: National Review reviewed, or The Sniper Sniped!

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:15:46 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Thanks for posting that article, if only so that I can get nasty (!) over

the extraordinary comment made by the reviewer as he castigates Anne Perry

for the innocuous phrase "As close to Westminster as we live":

 

"(No Englishman, now or then, would insert the first 'as')"

 

Good grief! What a load of rubbish! Here's one English person (who does

doctoral research on English literature and teaches English at a Cambridge

college) who wouldn't think twice about how many "as"'s to put in that

sentence. The point being that no English person (especially now) would

*care*, as long as the sense was clear. The idea that there is a

particularly English way to use that construction is a glaring

example of the sort of cliched misunderstanding of Englishness of

which Ms Perry here stands accused. The review doesn't help its case much

by obliterating the context, but that is hardly an excuse.

 

Then again, he's right about not reading A.P. for period detail, however

much US audiences might do so (&, I fear, UK ones, too). For me, Anne

Perry's crime books are just competently written, reasonably surprising

and unusually sordid tales of the emotion surrounding crime. I confess

I'd heard of but dismissed her books in those dark, distant, slightly damp

pre-HC days. However (shivers time)...

 

Has anyone read 'Defend and Betray', the one dedicated to Henry Hulme? I

got a terrible shock when the murder trial began halfway through the plot

(this isn't really a spoiler, *honestly*, as the murder occurs on

the first page, more or less). Can you guess on which day - announced

several times in letters which will leap out and smack any Heavenly

Creature - the murder trial begins?

 

Let's just say that it is the Day of another very (un)Happy Event...

 

Now, anyone care to wonder if she still thinks about it all?

 

Phil

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.6 ---------------

 

From: Michaela Rhea Drapes <oleanna@mail.utexas.edu>

Subject: more true crime films?

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:15:51 -0600

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

A recent .sig on one of Bao Ly's letters mentioned that perhaps Jackson

wants to do another true crime film. In my happy little dream world, he would

tackle a rather recent true crime tale to come out of Texas that minorly

affected my little world. My freshman year of college, the girl who lived above

me in my all-girl dorm was arrested one night by a pack of lawmen (a huge ruckus,

as you'd suppose) for mudering her father when she was in high school. When

the event happened, we really didn't know much about it, and I was very glad to see that

the story was very well covered in the July issue of Texas Monthly. Its a much

too compicated tale to relate here, and I would encourage people interested in

teenage patricides (uh, a lot of people on this list, I would suppose) to read the

article. There are quite a few parallels to HC, mostly in the fact that Marie was

very much (in my memory) like Juliet (pretty, intellegent, etc.), and the prosecution

in her trial called her a 'teenage narcissist'; which to me sounds like something

that would have come out of the mouth of a Christchurch magistrate in 1954.

 

However, an interesting facet of the case is that Marie claims she didn't want to kill her father, just make

him sick so that she could go live with her mother (they were like best friends) after her stepfather

would not let her move back in with them. She poisoned him with barium acetate that she stole

from her high school chemistry lab in what ended up being a lethal dosage. I find it interesting that

seperation anxiety was again the impetus for a murder.

 

Of course, I'm sure that Jackson and Walsh don't want to fall into doing true-crime

films about pretty, intelligent, murderesses who hack off their parents, but I think they

could do a really fantastic job with it.

 

-michaela

 

ps-for those out of the country, I'm working on typing it up to send people who can't get a copy

of the magazine--let me know if you're interested.

----

Michaela R. Drapes

oleanna@mail.utexas.edu michaela@cibola.net

http://www2.cibola.net/~michaela

"I do not think you can catch me, for I am super-freaky."

-Artie, the strongest man in the World, "The Adventures of Pete and Pete"

---

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.7 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: Pauline's poetry

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:56:15 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Following volumes 1-31 of my literary rumblings, Kate wrote

 

>I'm guessing Paul's motives in writing this poem were not to imitate

>her favourite authors (though of course that may have come out) but to

>find a perfect expression for her feelings for Juliet.

 

Absolutely. And thanks for saying so, because in my flurry of

technicalities, I forgot to, and it's the most important thing, of course.

I suppose I should admit that my work is a study of genres and influences

in seventeenth-century religious poetry, so I spend a lot of time trying

to figure out which authors poets have been reading and using

(consciously or not) in their own work. However, my real love is

twentieth-century poetry, and this is why Pauline's poem fascinates me.

It's so different: naive and yet compelling; disturbingly intense, yet

evincing a sense of peace and joy which you'd think was beyond the years

of its author. Mel Lynskey reads it *perfectly*, too. One of her finest

moments.

 

>And I think the place she found the perfect vocabulary was, in fact, in

church.

 

Again, you're right, and I think more needs to be known about the girls'

religious musings. I remember a review somewhere saying that

Pauline's 'We have had it in our possession for about 6

months, but we only realized it on the day of the death of

Christ' was her way of despising Christianity, but I don't think that's

right at all, though they did indeed 'reject' Christianity in the end.

Before that, though, there's a lot of religious flavour to the story; and

both women became devout believers, though of different churches.

 

>politics

 

Yes, 'they'd be the pride and joy of any nation' is an odd line (s'queer),

and Winston Churchill (so many cigars and so much brandy) does lurk, in a

wickedly satirized way, in the mind of PYP. Strikes me, too, that it is

an expression often used to describe parental happiness over their kids -

'Little Johnny's our pride and joy', &c. Odd to use it of a nation.

Makes me sad, actually, because Pauline must have been her parents' pride

and joy at one stage - as J&W suggest in Honora's anxiety to know how

well Pauline had done at school and her evident pride and joy (Sarah

Peirse is wonderful) at hearing 'Got an A, mum!'. When I got my degree, my

mother announced it over the tannoy system at her office building, so I

know what I'm talking about. Mothers...

 

More turns of the literary screw another time.

 

Phil

 

----

'We that were friends' (stanza 1)

 

We that were friends to-night have found

A fear, a secret, and a shame:

I am on fire with that soft sound

You make, in uttering my name.'

 

(James Elroy Flecker, Collected Poems (3rd edition, London, 1916); one of

the poets Juliet Hulme is reported as reciting in her cell at Mt. Eden).

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.8 ---------------

 

From: kate ann jacobson <kjac@unm.edu>

Subject: Re: Miss Perry

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:29:53 -0600 (MDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

Sandra wrote:

 

>There is some evidence somewhere(perhaps in one of mad Medlicott's

>papers) that the real life Juliet did indeed use the name Antoinette

>at some time.

 

Yes, she did. Though there is no evidence she ever used it in French class,

the Parker and Hulme book says that she and Pauline tried out several names

before deciding on Gina and Deborah, and one of Juliet's early ones was

Antoinette, suggested, of course, by the ever-helpful Hilda.

 

- kate

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.9 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Lyrics: Funiculì, funiculà!

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 02:26:22 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Can anybody translate this into English for me?

 

--

 

Funicul=EC, funicul=E0!

 

Virtual Museum of the neapolitan song

versi: Peppino Turco

musica: Luigi Denza

anno 1880

 

I

 

Aieressera, oi' ne', me ne sagliette,

tu saie addo'?

Addo' 'stu core 'ngrato cchiu' dispietto

farme nun po'!

Addo' lo fuoco coce, ma si fuie

te lassa sta!

E nun te corre appriesso, nun te struie,

'ncielo a guarda'!...

Jammo 'ncoppa, jammo ja',

funiculi', funicula'!

 

II

 

Ne'... jammo da la terra a la montagna!

no passo nc'e'!

Se vede Francia, Proceta e la Spagna...

Io veco a tte!

Tirato co la fune, ditto 'nfatto,

'ncielo se va..

Se va comm' 'a lu viento a l'intrasatto,

gue', saglie sa'!

Jammo 'ncoppa, jammo ja',

funiculi', funicula'!

 

III

 

Se n' 'e' sagliuta, oi' ne', se n' 'e' sagliuta

la capa gi=E0!

E' gghiuta, po' e' turnata, po' e' venuta...

sta sempe cca'!

La capa vota, vota, attuorno, attuorno,

attuorno a tte!

Sto core canta sempe nu taluorno

Sposammo, oi' ne'!

Jammo 'ncoppa, jammo ja',

funiculi', funicula'!

 

 

Back to document index

 

 

Vox Neapolis

 

Music in Naples

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n091.10 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Lyrics: You'll Never Walk Alone

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 02:28:24 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

You'll Never Walk Alone

 

You'll Never Walk Alone

Lyrics by Oscar Hammerstein II

Music by Richard Rogers

 

When you walk through a storm hold your head up high

And don't be afraid of the dark.

At the end of a storm is a golden sky

And the sweet silver song of a lark.

Walk on through the wind,

Walk on through the rain,

Tho' your dreams be tossed and blown.

Walk on, walk on with hope in your heart

And you'll Never Walk Alone,

You'll Never Walk Alone.

 

--

p.s. everyone knows what song we need the lyrics to now, right? -"The

Donkey Serenade" (the rest are in the FAQ!). Since we now know that

The Donkey Serenade is from the operetta, "Firefly"--does anyone have

the lyrics to it?

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n091 ---------------

 

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Wed Aug 14 03:01:40 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA15936 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 03:01:37 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (root@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id DAA24233; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 03:01:08 -0700

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 03:01:08 -0700

Message-Id: <199608141001.DAA24233@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n092

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: RO

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n092 --------------

 

001 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Lyrics: Funiculì, funiculà!

002 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: DVD

003 - Clscflm@aol.com - Miramax ads

004 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly) (fwd)

005 - mpellas@sgi.net (Michael - my curiosity

006 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: my curiosity

007 - mpellas@sgi.net (Michael - Re: my curiosity

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n092.1 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: Lyrics: Funiculì, funiculà!

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 17:44:33 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

No way I can translate this (and it looks very idiomatic), but I can tell

you it's about a funicular (cable) railway going up a mountain. The song

was composed for the opening of the funicular railway nwar Naples in 1880,

so I imagine its in the Neapolitan idiom. Richard Strauss used it in the

belief it was a folk song.

 

I don't think you would find anything of great relevance in the lyrics.

 

cheers

 

Sandra

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n092.2 ---------------

 

From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)

Subject: Re: DVD

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 03:05:46 -0800

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 

MrS1fDstrc@aol.com wrote:

 

> Digital Video Discs or DVD's are far superior to laser disc's in almost

>every way. They are superior in both picture and sound quality.

> Not only do DVD's have better picture and sound, they are also much more

>convenient and offer more features.

> Finally, DVD's will have some really incredible added features.

> I think that we should all wait for the DVD players to come out

 

I'm suspicious of the technology treadmill. We're constantly being told to

toss out perfectly good stuff in favor of the new and improved. Ah,

capitalism! It makes the world go round.

 

I for one will never part with my turntable... or my Beta deck... or my

prized 8-track player! Why, I laugh in the face of marketing hype. Ha!

 

Those dvd's do sound pretty cool, though. 8^)

 

Adam

 

==========================================================================

Only the best people fight against Adam Abrams

all obstacles... in pursuit of happiness! Vancouver, BC, Canada

--Juliet Hulme, "Heavenly Creatures"

Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html

==========================================================================

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n092.3 ---------------

 

From: Clscflm@aol.com

Subject: Miramax ads

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 07:46:53 -0400

 

 

 

<< the Miramax ads that ran in

America regarding Juliet's new identity...one in particular, titled

"Murder She Wrote". I am still looking for this one--it is in the New York

Times. I still haven't found out the date which it appeared yet. But I'll

find it sooner or later. >>

 

The LA Times use of these ultra tacky ads are March 3 and 10th, 1995.

 

ClsFlm

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n092.4 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly) (fwd)

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 22:36:33 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

OK folks, here it is, courtesy opera-l, the list that knows EVERYTHING.

 

cheers

sb

 

 

There's a song in the air

But the fair senorita

Doesn't seem to care

For the song in the air.

 

So I'll sing to my mule

Though I know she will say

That I am just a fool

Serenading a mule.

 

Oh, has she not got a dainty bray

She listens carefully to each little word I say

But try as she may

In her voice there's a flaw

And all that the lady can bray

Is hee-haw!

 

Senorita donkey-cita

Not so fleet as a mosquito

But more sweet than my chiquita

You're the one for me.

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n092.5 ---------------

 

From: mpellas@sgi.net (Michael Pellas)

Subject: my curiosity

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 00:31:17 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Everybody,

 

has anyone bought or looked at, even with the HIGHLY cheesy name, the

"Mammoth Book of Killer Women"? It offers an interesting perspective on our

two Creatures. The current rationalization by AP/JH is brought into

interesting light...

 

It also offers a detailed account of both girls' lives...

 

yours,

 

mpellas@sgi.net

 

"It is possible that, under another name, the world in time will recognise a

writer of talent," TG and HHG... talking of none other than...well you know :-)

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n092.6 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: my curiosity

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:35:48 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

 

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Michael Pellas wrote:

> Everybody,

>

> has anyone bought or looked at, even with the HIGHLY cheesy name, the

> "Mammoth Book of Killer Women"? It offers an interesting perspective on our

> two Creatures. The current rationalization by AP/JH is brought into

> interesting light...

>

> It also offers a detailed account of both girls' lives...

 

Well, I have one which I supect is the same called The Giant Book of

Killer Women (obtained somewhere or other for a very small amount of

dollars), which contains a recycled version of this reference in the FAQ:

 

Gurr, T. and Cox, H.

 

"Famous Australasian Crimes." Muller, London, 1957. [jb]

 

This has a rather sensational and error-riddled chapter on

 

the case, but it also has valuable photos of crime scene and

 

PYP diary pages. [jp]

 

jp of course is John Douglas Porter.

 

There aren't in fact that many glaring factual errors; the most obvious

is "When the mother suggested that Pauline should leave the high school,

and go to another school where her progress might be better, Pauline

surprisingly agreed". Whereas, as accurately shown in the movie, she

actually went to Digby's Secretarial College to learn to type.

 

It is however sensational, with extremely gratuitous descriptions of PYP

and JMH: PYP was "a dark and dumpy girl ... with cold brown eyes gleaming

watchfully from her olive-skinned face"; JMH on the other hand had

"slanting grey eyes, the clear eyes of youth; high forehead; a slim and

graceful body, and a confident air. Now she was intelligent and

attractive. Soon she would be intelligent and beautiful." All code of

course for gender stereotyping. But you gotta watch those slanting eyes

...in the dock "Pauline, with a brown felt hat shielding her cunning brown

eyes, Juliet ... staring coolly from her slanted eyes at one person in

court after another". This version doesn't contain the valuable

photographs, which include a wonderfully tasteful one of the streams of

blood on the path at Victoria Park.

 

I don't think the article contains anything that isn't in the FAQ.

 

cheers

 

sb

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n092.7 ---------------

 

From: mpellas@sgi.net (Michael Pellas)

Subject: Re: my curiosity

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 02:09:03 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I was wondering what everybody else thought of it...being a new Creature and

all..

 

I was at a photo shoot today here in Pittsburgh at some particularly gothic

locals...a graveyard, churches, etc... couldn't help but envision the girls

there...

 

more curiosity: Is anyone else into Tori Amos?

 

---got my letterboxed copy today---

 

mpellas@sgi.net

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n092 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Wed Aug 14 22:59:25 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA10405 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 22:59:15 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA29880; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 22:58:54 -0700

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 22:58:54 -0700

Message-Id: <199608150558.WAA29880@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n093

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: RO

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n093 --------------

 

001 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly)

002 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly)

003 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - 'Heavenly Creatures...whatever...'

004 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: You'll Never Walk Alone

005 - plath3@his.com (Peter Lat - Re:HC-2: Frighteners;Possible Spolier

006 - plath3@his.com (Peter Lat - Re: Melanie Lynskey

007 - kate ann jacobson <kjac@u - Cancel

008 - "Chris Black" <qleap@inte - Re: Cancel

009 - Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com - Re: Cancel

010 - Michaela Rhea Drapes <ole - RE: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly)

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.1 ---------------

 

From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)

Subject: Re: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly)

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:39:20 -0800

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Hi Sandra, and everyone!

 

Well, opera-l missed some stuff, or Mario improvised. Here's the lyrics as

sung on the soundtrack.

Bracketed <<this way>> = extra or different than the opera-l version.

(Thsi way) = sung by the chorus.

The extra lyrics here explain my confusion as to just who he's singing to,

besides the mule. Who is Amigo Mio, who plays the "little tunes"? And what

about Don Diego? Was this an inspiration for "I'd walk a mile for a Camel"?

 

Guess I'll have to go rent "The Firefly" to learn all the answers!

 

 

There's a song in the air

But the fair senorita

Doesn't seem to care

For the song in the air.

 

So I'll sing to <<the>> mule

<<If you're sure she won't think>>

That I am just a fool

Serenading a mule!

 

<<Amigo mio, does she not have >>a dainty bray

She listens carefully to each little tune you play

(A bella sniorita)

She see me muchachito

She'd love to sing it too, if only she knew the way

 

But try as she may

In her voice there's a flaw

And all that the lady can <<say>>

Is hee-haw!

 

<<(There's a light in her eyes

Though she may try to hide it

No-one can deny

there's a light in her eyes...)>>

 

<<Oh the charm of her smile so beguiled Don Diego

that he rode a mile

for the charm of her smile!>>

 

<<Amigo mio, is she listening to my song?

No, no, mi muchachito, how can you be so wrong?

(A bella seniorita)

She see la seniorita (?)

She'd love to sing it too, if only she knew the way>>

 

<<Her face is a dream like an angel I saw

But all that my darling can scream

Is hee-haw!>>

 

Senorita donkey-cita

Not so fleet as a mosquito

But <<so sweet like>> my chiquita

You're the one for me.

 

------

TTYL,

Adam

 

==========================================================================

Only the best people fight against Adam Abrams

all obstacles... in pursuit of happiness! Vancouver, BC, Canada

--Juliet Hulme, "Heavenly Creatures"

Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html

==========================================================================

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.2 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly)

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:56:56 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, adam abrams wrote:

 

> Senorita donkey-cita

> Not so fleet as a mosquito

> But <<so sweet like>> my chiquita

> You're the one for me.

 

OLE!

--Jefferson

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.3 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: 'Heavenly Creatures...whatever...'

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:10:31 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Dear 'Heavenly Creatures... whatever's

 

I thought you might like to know how my good friend John has just

described me on his homepage <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5379>:

 

>I have a friend who has become a Heavenly Creatures...

>whatever... and so you might like to know that there's a

>very very good homepage for that film. Just thought I'd

>mention it.

 

So now all you 'whatevers' out there know what you are, and why

people look at you and talk about you the way they do. Shall I forgive

him for giving Bryan a good write-up?? Well, he has this excuse, that

when I showed him HC he needed several large whiskies (and a potted

account of the FAQ) to recover.

 

Michael: he has just put up a huge Tori Amos piccy you might like -

though I'm afraid I can't say I approve. I shall send him a digital

Melanie Lynskey immediately (as I have to tell him how I loathe T.A.).

 

When, oh when, will we get 'The Frighteners' in England? Soon, please...

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.4 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: You'll Never Walk Alone

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:02:25 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

The lyrics to "You'll Never Walk Alone" is also different from the

original by Oscar Hammerstein II:

 

Mario sang, "When you walk through a storm keep your chin up high";

instead of..."When you walk through a storm hold your head up high."

Just the first line though.

 

p.s. That Guardian article is damn good! I am reading it right now...if

Phil is still planning to post it soon, I'll continue to re-install all

the 2-3 Gigabytes of junk back onto my computer; if not, I'll get my

scanner going again and OCR the document and post it for everyone...

 

--

"The end is everywhere: Art still has truth, take refuge there."

Matthew Arnold -lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.5 ---------------

 

From: plath3@his.com (Peter Latham)

Subject: Re:HC-2: Frighteners;Possible Spolier

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:12:51 -0500

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I just saw "The Frighteners" and confirmed all the "Heavenly Creatures"

references identified on this list.These were: 1] the Parker/Hulme

photograph on the videocassette 2] Ms. Alvarado's role as "Dr.Lynskey" 3]

the two cameo appearances by Melanie Lynskey as a cop and 4] Sherrif Walter

Perry.

 

I had expected these references to be peripheral to the plot, sort of

"teasers" for the Heavenly Creatures faithful. But as I watched the film, I

formed the conclusion that they were central and that "The Frighteners"

might plausibly be viewed as "Heavenly Creatures II".If you haven't seen

The Frighteners and plan to do so, please don't read further, my discussion

may contain a SPOILER.

 

The plot revolves around the Dee Wallace character (Patricia), who at the

age of 15, committed a series of 12 murders with her lover who was executed

for it.has lived the time from 15 to middle age as a virtual recluse, whose

principal companion is her mother (sound familiar?).But Dee Wallace hasn't

changed.She's no different in middle age from what she was at 15.Together

with the ghost of her lover,28 additional "supernatural" murders are

committed.The spirit of Patricia is finally sent to hell, but her crimes

are memorialized in the writings of Walter Perry.His muse is FBI Agent

Dammers whose refusal to rebury Patricia's lover ensures that the couple's

murders will never rest.

 

Note that Patricia kills 28 more times. 28 has great significance for

Juliet Hulme, who was born on 28 October 1938 and was convicted of murder

on 28 August 1954.These relationships are ones we should pay attention to,

according to FBI Agent Dammers.

 

I propose that Peter Jackson means to suggest that Juliet Hulme is

unchanged and still commiting frightening crimes through the writings of

Anne Perry.

 

In Heavenly Creatures,Jackson explored the girls' minds while sticking

strictly to the facts established in the trial record.Now he explores the

mind of Juliet Hulme/Anne Perry by sticking strictly to fantasy.

 

Does this seem plausible?

 

"A mistake does not mean that you are finished. Please, never give up - you

can't alter yesterday, but tomorrow is yours. It can be wonderful." Anne

Perry, bestselling murder mystery writer,whose prior life as Juliet Hulme

was the subject of the film, Heavenly Creatures (1994).

 

Sincerely,

 

Peter Latham

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.6 ---------------

 

From: plath3@his.com (Peter Latham)

Subject: Re: Melanie Lynskey

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:13:12 -0500

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

If Peter Jackson is going to do another true crime story, let me suggest

that he do the Lizzie Borden story and use Melanie Lynskey in the key role.

 

"A mistake does not mean that you are finished. Please, never give up - you

can't alter yesterday, but tomorrow is yours. It can be wonderful." Anne

Perry, bestselling murder mystery writer,whose prior life as Juliet Hulme

was the subject of the film, Heavenly Creatures (1994).

 

Sincerely,

 

Peter Latham

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.7 ---------------

 

From: kate ann jacobson <kjac@unm.edu>

Subject: Cancel

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:57:18 -0600 (MDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

I'm very sorry, but I have to be off the list. Nothing personal, but I do

believe they -were- taking photographs of each other in the bathroom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.8 ---------------

 

From: "Chris Black" <qleap@interl.net>

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:35:21 +0000

 

 

 

>

> I'm very sorry, but I have to be off the list. Nothing personal, but I do

> believe they -were- taking photographs of each other in the bathroom.

 

Eh? And that's why you're leaving? heh

 

 

--Chris

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.9 ---------------

 

From: Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com>

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:08:17 +0000 (GMT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> > I'm very sorry, but I have to be off the list. Nothing personal, but I do

> > believe they -were- taking photographs of each other in the bathroom.

>

> Eh? And that's why you're leaving? heh

 

Yeah.... that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense...

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n093.10 ---------------

 

From: Michaela Rhea Drapes <oleanna@mail.utexas.edu>

Subject: RE: Donkey Serenade (The Firefly)

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:58:18 -0600

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

On Wednesday, August 14, 1996 4:39 PM, adam abrams[SMTP:adamabr@mail.helix.net] wrote:

 

here's my contribution to the lyrics...

 

><<Amigo mio, does she not have >>a dainty bray

>She listens carefully to each little tune you play

>(A bella sniorita)

 

A bella senorita

 

>She see me muchachito

 

Si, si mi muchachito (yes, yes, my boy)

 

>No-one can deny

>there's a light in her eyes...)>>

 

She cannot deny

 

>She see la seniorita (?)

 

Si, si la senorita

 

 

regards,

michaela

 

 

----

Michaela R. Drapes

oleanna@mail.utexas.edu michaela@cibola.net

http://www2.cibola.net/~michaela

"Hey! They're frosted! Hey! We're made of clay!"--Gumby

and Pokey in the Frosted Cherrios commercial

---

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n093 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Thu Aug 15 23:04:56 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA19737 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:04:53 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA09503; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:03:22 -0700

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:03:22 -0700

Message-Id: <199608160603.XAA09503@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n094

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n094 --------------

 

001 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Cancel

002 - "Bao Ly" <lybao@earthlink - The Guardian Article

003 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Cancel

004 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Cancel

005 - Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.o - Re: Melanie Lynskey

006 - Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.o - Re: my curiosity

007 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Blubberhead(?)

008 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - True Life/True Crime

009 - kate ann jacobson <kjac@u - Re: Cancel

010 - kate ann jacobson <kjac@u - Re: Cancel

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.1 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:08:06 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

kate ann jacobson wrote:

 

> I'm very sorry, but I have to be off the list. Nothing personal, but I do

> believe they -were- taking photographs of each other in the bathroom.

 

Bao (Upset) Don't...please! Please, don't!

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.2 ---------------

 

From: "Bao Ly" <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: The Guardian Article

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:53:39 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Well, thanks to Sandra Bowdler and Phil West for bringing this article

into our knowledge and onto the list. I happened to scanned, converted,=20

and spell-checked the darn thing...so here it is on Sandra and Phil

behalf.

=20

--

Facts on File Dec 31 '94 (p. 1015) -lybao@earthlink.net

Mystery novelist Anne Perry, 55, had publicly revealed that in 1954 she=20

had been convicted and jailed for her role in widely publicized New=20

Zealand murder, it was reported Aug. 18, Perry's real name was Juliet

Hulme.

--

 

The Guardian Weekend, June 29, 1996.

Robert McCrum

 

Memories of murder

 

Exclusive interview by Robert McCrum Portrait by David Eustace=20

Anne Perry spent half her teenage years in a New Zealand prison, convicte=

d

of killing her best friend's mother. On her release, she moved to the oth=

er

side of the world and for decades managed to bury her past. Under her new

identity, she has become a prolific murder mystery writer-and her recurri=

ng

theme is crime within the family.

 

In her life and her work, Anne Perry is a woman of mystery. For year=

s

she wrote novels of crime and punishment in relative obscurity. Then,

almost overnight, she became famous. News broke that her own life conceal=

ed

a horrifying murder. Forty years ago, she had been a convicted killer.

Perry maintains that she has long since forgotten the episode; she though=

t

she'd left her past behind. But when she picked up the telephone in her

Scottish retreat just after lunch on July 29, 1994, she discovered to her

horror that her secret was out and-worse-was to be the subject of an

international feature film. The fateful phone call came from Meg Davis, h=

er

literary agent in London.

 

"A ridiculous thing has happened," Davis said. "There's a film being

made about this murder, and some people have got hold of this crazy idea

that it's you." Perry, who is repeating this story to me while lying on a

couch in her forest-green guest room, stares into the middle distance and

says, "I think that was one of the worst moments of my life. I had to say=

,

'I'm sorry, but you can't.' I said, 'You can't refute it because it's

true.' "

This moment of melodrama might have come from any of Perry's 22 book=

s

of come fiction which are set in Victorian England and have sold more tha=

n

three million copies in the US and UK Suddenly, the world she'd spent yea=

rs

making for herself, fell to pieces. "It was a matter of living each day a=

t

a time," she says. "I thought it would kill my mother."

Heavenly Creatures, the film which tells her bizarre tale with eerie

verisimilitude, came out last year with great success. However much Perry

tries to disavow it, it is based on painstaking research into her early

life in New Zealand.

Now 57 years old, she became Anne Perry only in 1959, when she was 2=

1.

Before chat, she was Juliet Hulme, a sickly English schoolgirl living in

Christchurch. And it was as Juliet Hulme that in 1954, she was accused,

tried and found guilty of helping to murder her best friend's mother.

For some years, she has lived discreetly in a converted stone team o=

n

the edge of Portmahomack, a remote fishing village an hour's drive from

Inverness in the far northeast of Scotland. From her study windows, there

are breathtaking views of Dornoch Firth and the highlands of Sutherland.

Across the yard, her friend, Meg MacDonald, who shares a cottage with a

menagerie of cats and dogs, habitually cooks Anne's evening meal; Meg's s=

on

Simon, who lives a few miles away, works for Perry as unofficial chauffeu=

r,

gardener and man about the house.

Five, often six days a week Anne Perry sits in her armchair and

writes, with Verdi or Puccini playing in the background. Her bedroom is

feminine and rumpled, but the rest of the house-sitting room,

half-furnished, and unlived in. Her mother, Marion Perry, who is 83, live=

s

a mile away, in Irongate Cottage. She has a heart condition (a fact her

daughter often mentions), but she has a temperament of steel. She, too, h=

as

had a life to rebuild. She was not unprepared for her daughter's news.

"It was always in the back of my mind," she says. "Occasionally, I d=

id

say to Anne, 'Have you ever considered chat you are perhaps being too

adventuresome?' When she came to see me that day, I thought: 'This is it.=

'

" Even in old age, Mrs Perry radiates glamour, self-possession and

worldliness. She is snappily dressed; rings glitter on her fingers; at fo=

ur

o'clock she offers sherry. Now she sits very straight in her chair,

speaking in the faultless English of her class. "I said, 'There's no plac=

e

for tears. If there's any crying, it's to be done much later.' " She told

her daughter to draw up a list of friends and sent her back up the hill t=

o

do battle.

There's an undeniable frisson to a conversation with a woman who has

taken a life. Perry is eager and friendly, but there is something damaged

about her, she has the wariness that comes from the fear of expressing

trust. She exclaims, with rare spontaneity, "It's extraordinary to talk a=

nd

to be able to tell the truth."

The 'gym-tunic murderesses" still fascinate New Zealand. Victoria

Park-where the girls Juliet Hulme and Pauline Parker, bludgeoned Pauline'=

s

mother to death-retains its macabre associations. It was inevitable that =

a

movie about the case would revive curiosity in Perry's fate. Ever since h=

er

release from prison in 1959, Perry has tried to become someone else. Now

she has been forced to acknowledge that inside or alongside, Anne Perry,

the successful crime writer, stands the spectral figure of Juliet Hulme,

the teenager who, when last seen by the world, had just been spared the

gallows because she was too young for the death penalty.

She was born Juliet Marion Hulme on October 28,1938, in Blackheadh,

London. Her father, Dr Henry Rainsford Hulme, was a brilliant Cambridge

mathematician . Her mother, Hilda Marion Hulme (whose name became Marion

Perry after her daughter's trial), was the daughter of a Presbyterian

minister. Family photographs show Hilda as a glossy, confident woman, and

Herny as a reedy, bespectacled figure. His daughter remembers him I as "a

very gentle man, very compassionate, an absent-minded scientist". She

admits chat she was afraid of her mother, and had a difficult childhood.

She was highly-strung, demanding, and prone to illnesses. At six, Juliet

nearly died from pneumonia:

When she was eight her parents, who had been told their daughter wou=

ld

not survive another British winter, sent her to the Bahamas to stay with

some friends of friends, the Brownes, and the impact of this exile on the

young girl cannot be underestimated. She rejoined her parents when they

arrived in New Zealand in 1948. Dr Hulme had been appointed rector of

Canterbury University College, Christchurch. Juliet now ten, had not seen

her parents in nearly a year and a half. "I felt very alien," Perry

remembers.

The young Juliet, in snapshots is pale and willowy, with wavy hair.

She was always in the top three in any class, and was good at everything

except games. She liked to draw. She was, apparently, cocky, articulate,

and a bit of a dreamer, with a special interest in history and poetry. He=

r

classmates nicknamed her the Duchess, and Perry retains a certain duchess=

y

manner today. She is dogmatic in conversation, and displays an exaggerate=

d

belief in the power of positive chinking. She speaks repeatedly of the ne=

ed

for compassion

In her 1992 novel Defend And Betray, Perry writes of a woman who ha=

s

committed murder that 'she will never cease to pay within herself for her

act". And I detect in her manner an unassuaged inner despair. She is both

like a child and like an adult, but the two parts seem not to connect. Sh=

e

reluctantly agrees chat "reliving all this has been very, very difficult".

Upon their arrival in the remote, provincial Christchurch of the

Fifties, they took up residence in a colonial mansion outside town called

Ilam House. Both Dr Hulme and his wife contrived, in their separate ways,

to offend the locals. Henry Hulme, Perry admits, "did not suffer fools

gladly and made himself much disliked". Hilda was high-spirited and

opinionated-"the sort of women jealous of mother," she says, "which was

part of the reason why they were, only too glad to tear us down." But tha=

t

came later. Juliet was sent to a succession of boarding schools at which

she was "absolutely tormented". In May, 1952, when she was 13, Juliet

enrolled in Class 3A, the top scream, at Christchurch Girls' High School,

and where she met Pauline Yvonne Rieper.

Pauline had suffered from osteomyelitis as a child; she had a scar on

her leg, and she, too, didn't quite fit in at school. She insisted on bei=

ng

called "Paul", and her dark, curly hair was cut short like a boy's. She i=

s

described by other members of 3A as "sullen", "queer" and "stroppy", and

she lived on Gloucester Street in a gloomy, rambling house that was known

to some pupils as "the house with the rusty roof". The Riepers were as

dowdy as the Hulmes were glamorous. Pauline was the second of three girls=

,

whose English-born mother, Honorah, a shy, domesticated woman, ran 31

Gloucester Street as a boarding house to make ends meet. Honorah wore a

uniform and had "rules" tacked up around the house. Pauline's father,

Herbert (Bert), managed a fish shop and he had another family in Auckland=

;

he was always short of money. Bert and Honorah's secret, which came out

after the murder, was that they had never married, and Pauline was

ultimately charged under Honorah's maiden name, Parker.

Pauline resented her parents. A note of teenage rebellion dominates

her diary, an extraordinary document that, after the murder, proved her

undoing. In her daily entries, she moans about household chores and lack =

of

privacy. Her friendship with the solitary English girl Juliet seemed to

open a door into a world of comfort and sophistication.

Unlike Perry, Pauline has managed to keep her adult identity a secre=

t

in her absence, her journals have to speak for her. When asked about her,

Perry at first claims defensively, "I don't remember Pauline", a variatio=

n

on a consent refrain. "Good dark eyes," she recalls when pressed. "Short

dark hair . . . good-looking . . . a bit heavy. . . bright."

"They were absolute opposites in every way but Pauline just made a

beeline for Juliet," their classmate Laura Cairns remembers. It was what =

we

called 'a pash'." The two were inseparable, eating meals together sitting

together in class, holding hands and giggling. They both exploited their

illnesses to get out of organised games, and became increasingly lose in =

a

private world of fantasy. They listened to the music of Mario Lanza,

idolised the movies of James Mason, and revelled in tales of derring-do

such as The Prisoner Of Zenda. The two adopted pseudonyms-"Deborah" for

Juliet, and "Gina" for Pauline. Later they added "Pandora" and "Nina". (I=

t

is a peculiar feature of this story that almost all the main participants

appear with at least two different names.)

Over the years, the nature of Juliet and Pauline's friendship has be=

en

scrutinised up and down. Who was the leader and who the follower? Was the

friendship homosexual? At the trial, the prosecution portrayed the two

girls as unfeeling and unnatural, arguing that their relationship led

inexorably to matricide. Anne Perry says that this is "absolute rubbish"

and adds, "we were not lovers". She explains-convincingly, I think-that a=

s

a teenager in the 1950s, she was naive about sexual, especially homosexua=

l,

matters. Slowly, she cases her friendship with Pauline in more convention=

al

terms. "We did a lot of things together, ordinary things," she says. "It

was not obsessive."

But Pauline's diaries for 1953 and 1954depictan adolescent friendshi=

p

inching toward hysteria. She describes the things the two girls did

together- horse-riding, listening to records, talking on the telephone.

They also took baths together, they sometimes slept in the same bed (and

worried about adult discovery). Pauline's writing reflects a mood of mutu=

al

joy and a growing sense of isolation from reality. On March 17, 1953, she

writes that, "After school I biked out to Ilam with Juliet to get my came=

ra

and snap each other ... We have decided how sad it is for other people th=

at

they cannot appreciate our genius." A few days later, she describes an

Easter visit she made to the Hulmes: "3rd April. Today Juliet and I found

the key to the 4th World . . . We saw a gateway through the clouds."

In May of chat year, when a test revealed that Juliet had tuberculos=

is

on one lung, she was sent away to a sanatorium, where she stayed until

September. Once again, she found herself deserted by her parents, who wer=

e

on a lecture tour. Pauline wrote to her every day. "We had a continuous

running story which we wrote turn and turn about," Perry remembers. "It

wasn't romance, more adventure, with sword fights and things. Pauline was

my one connection with the outside world."

This, it turns out, is not strictly true. Juliet had many visitors:

classmates, Canterbury College students and family friends. Nevertheless,

it is a vital element of her explanation for the murder of Honorah Parker

chat she should have a profound debt of obligation to Pauline; there is a=

n

emotional, if not a literal, truth to her mis-remembering these months. O=

n

September 9, Pauline wrote, "I believe I could fall in love with Juliet."

Looking back on the final month of 1953, Perry's mother reluctantly

agrees that there was "a sense of concern" at the "unhealthy" nature of t=

he

girls' friendship. Both Juliet and Pauline were sent to the local doctor.

Pauline was suffering from what would now be called bulimia and growing

desperate:

 

20th December. Mother woke me this morning and started lecturing me . . .

She has brought up the worst possible threat now. She said that if my

health did not improve, I would never get to see the Hulme's again. The

thought is too dreadful. Life would be unbearable without Deborah [Juliet=

].

I wish I could die.

 

At the same time, Hilda Hulme had fallen in love with another man:

Walter (Bill) Perry, a much decorated, twice-wounded soldier with a Clark

Gable moustache. Major Perry had travelled to New Zealand as an "industri=

al

consultant" and he had been introduced to Hilda by Dr Hulme himself. By

December, 1953, he had been installed as tenant at Ilam. Pauline's diary

vividly describes the breakdown of the Hulme family. On April 23, there w=

as

a cataclysm: "Deborah" had come upon Mr Perry and Mrs Hulme in bed

together, drinking tea. The next day Pauline rode her bicycle out to Ilam

and found herself drawn deeper into the Hulme family drama. Dr Hulme told

the two girls that he and his wife were going to divorce. Pauline writes

that Juliet and she "were near tears by the time it was over". "I was

devastated for my father," Anne Perry says now, but I don't remember

feeling angry toward my mother."

 

In his notes before the trial, the chief psychiatrist for the defenc=

e,

Reginald Medlicott, describes Juliet's discovery of her mother's infideli=

ty

as "the final blow". Medlicott's report goes on, "The girls were shocked

and severely upset ... There is more than a suggestion that it [the crime=

]

might have been a ritual murder of all the 'mother figures'- witch-like,

unloving, cruel and relentless." Hilda Hulme evidently thought so. In one

of her pre-trial interviews she asked, "Do you think Juliet really wanted

to murder me?"

 

Once the Hulmes began to organise the break-up of their family, Juli=

et

and Pauline were forced to confront their imminent separation. Dr Hulme w=

as

to return to England with his children via South Africa; Juliet would be

billeted there with an aunt, and Jonathan, the younger son, would go on

home with his father, while Hilda would remain with Major Perry in New

Zealand. The two girls plotted to have Pauline accompany Juliet abroad an=

d,

not for the first rime, it was sensible Honorah who put her foot down.

Pauline was now in a state of all-out confrontation with her. "Anger

against Mother," she writes, "boiled up inside me as it is she who is one

of the main obstacles in my path."

On June 10, with Juliet's departure date set for July 3, Pauline was

invited to stay at Ilam for a farewell visit. The two girl-overwrought,

volatile, and in a fever of mutual devotion-continued to explore their

sexual fantasies and began to entertain the unthinkable, an idea that

Pauline euphemistically expressed as "moider":

 

12th June. We came to bed quite early and spent the night very hectically.

13th June. We had very amusing discussions about God, Christ and the Holy

Ghost. . . We came to bed early feeling very excited. We spent a hectic

night going through the Saints. It was wonderful! Heavenly! Beautiful! an=

d

Ours! We felt satisfied indeed. We have now learned the peace of the thin=

g

called Bliss, the joy of the thing called Sin.

18th June. We planned our various moiders and talked seriously as well.

19th June. Our main idea for the day was to moider Mother. This notion is

not a new one but this time it is a definite plan which we intend to carr=

y

out.

 

The girls' scheme was m suggest the: Honorah join them on a farewell outi=

ng

to Victoria Park, a craggy, wooded recreation area in the hills overlooki=

ng

Christchurch. Pauline's mother welcomed her daughter's apparent change of

heart.

The plot to kill Honorah Parker was extraordinarily naive, and seems

to have been based on the idea that a single blow to the head would be

enough. On Tuesday, June 22, there's a final entry in Pauline's diary: "T=

he

Day of the Happy Event. I am writing a little of this up on the morning

before the death. I felt very excited and the night before-Christmas-ish

last night." Before she left Ilam that morning, Juliet collected a

half-brick from beside the garage and placed it in her bag, together with=

a

bright-pink stone taken from a brooch. Hilda Hulme later told the court s=

he

noticed how "radiantly happy" her daughter seemed. At 2.30pm, the two gir=

ls

and Honorah arrived at Victoria Park. They bought tea, cake, and lemonade

from a small kiosk near the entrance, and then set off for a walk down a

long, steep path through the rustling eucalyptus and pine trees. There wa=

s

no one about.

 

After about half a mile, near a little wooden bridge, Juliet

surreptitiously placed the pink stone on the path. They all walked on for=

a

while, and when the track gave out they turned back. As they approached t=

he

bridge for the second rime, it seems that Pauline pointed to the pink

stone, and her mother bent down to look. Pauline took the brick wrapped i=

n

the lisle stocking from her shoulder bag and began to hit her mother on t=

he

head. Honorah's screams were heard by a farmworker in the fields across t=

he

ravine, but ignored. Juliet joined in, taking the brick from Pauline.

Honorah fell, and then one of the girls held her by the neck while the

ether continued to hit her. Both girls later said that once they discover=

ed

that a single blow was not enough, they felt they had to go on. Honorah

started to vomit, and there was a great deal of blood.

At 3.30pm, Agnes Ritchie, the owner of the kiosk where they had

earlier taken tea, saw Pauline and Juliet running towards her. They were

drenched in blood, and they were in shock, shouting that there had been a

terrible accident. Both girls asked for their fathers and eventually they

were driven back to Ilam by Dr Hulme. The two girls claimed that Pauline'=

s

mother had sustained her injures from a fall. Mrs Hulme bathed them and p=

ut

them to bed. (In Anne Perry's book Cardington Crescent, Charlotte Pitt

visits her sister, who has been accused of murder; she puts her arms roun=

d

her "and let her weep as she needed to, holding her close and rocking a

little back and forth, murmuring the old, meaningless words of comfort fr=

om

childhood".)

When the police found Pauline's diary open where she had left it in

her room, the truth began to sink in. The girls gave conflicting intervie=

ws

to detectives, but Pauline was taken into custody late that evening. Juli=

et

was arrested next day. Anne Perry refers to that afternoon in Victoria Pa=

rk

as "nightmare time" and adds, "I felt like I was going to my own

execution." A long pause. "Time stands still at such moments. I don't kno=

w

if it was seconds or minutes." She has blanked out the murder, she says,

but "it was violent and It was quick."

What the scene-of-crime photographs actually reveal is a horrific

killing that would have taken some time. Honorah lies sprawled on her bac=

k

in a pool of blood; rivers of blood flow down the path from her head; her

false teeth have come out, and the little finger on her right hand has be=

en

almost severed by the brick from her trying to ward off the blows. The

stocking lies, discarded, next to the body, along with Honorah's feather

hat, gloves, and handbag. Honorah received some 45 lacerations, and death

was attributed to shock associated with multiple wounds to the head.

When Anne Perry is asked why she did it, she offers several,

well-rehearsed justifications. She will claim, for instance, that she was

suffering the side effects of the medication (isoniazid and streptomycin)

she had been taking for her tuberculosis. She will speak of her "agony fo=

r

my father". She will say that she was "backed into a corner by Pauline, w=

ho

was "throwing up after every meal and wasting away in front of us", and

finally, she will play her ace: "Pauline felt her life was in the balance=

,"

she says. "I believed she would take her own life. And so I helped her. I=

t

was a stupid thing to do, but I felt I couldn't have her suicide on my

conscience after she had stood by me [in the sanatorium] . . . I don't ha=

ve

any feeling for Pauline now, but it's ugly to blame someone else. You can

say I believed she would kill herself. Yes, I was in a state of hysteria.=

"

In Perry's novels, violence is a family affair, and the crime

invariably happens to someone known, or even related, to the detective

Charlotte Pitt, who is described as "a well-bred woman . . . of terrifyin=

g

honesty". In Resurrection Row, the heroine muses, "Actually to kill

someone, you have to care desperately over something, whether it is hare,

fear, greed, or because they stand in the way between you and something y=

ou

hunger for." When I ask whether this sentence is autobiographical, Perry

replies, "You'll notice that I always have the person dying as painlessly

as possible. The thought of inflicting pain horrifies me. I've done it

once, and it sickens me . . . You will notice in my writing, " she adds,

"that when people behave badly it's because they have no time to think an=

d

are rushed by events."

Perry has come to believe that her trial at the Supreme Court in

Christchurch was a travesty of justice, bur the court record simply

reflects the procedures of the Fifties. Today, the case would be held in

family court, and both girls could expect anonymity and counseling. In

1954, Juliet and Pauline were tried as adults in the full glare of the

media, but, being under age, were denied the right to testify. The defenc=

e

counsel for Parker and Hulme entered a plea of not guilty to the charge o=

f

murder, by reason of insanity, and the trial centered on a simple debate:

were the girls "bad" or "mad"? The defence argued "folie =E0 deux-joint

insanity. The prosecution, citing the evidence of Pauline's diaries,

contended that "this plainly was a callously planned and premeditated

murder, committed by two highly intelligent and perfectly sane but

precocious and dirty-minded girls."

The defence was hampered by the fact that both girls had signed full

confessions before their parents engaged lawyers-a questionable procedure.

Nevertheless, Medlicott, the psychiatrist on behalf of the defence, state=

d

that the girls' relationship was homosexual, and that he believed they we=

re

insane. Dr Kennerh Stallworthy, an expert witness for the prosecution,

observed that it was "extremely common for adolescence to go through a

stage in which they do have an intense and sometimes physical relationshi=

p

with another member of their own sex". He added that it was normal for

"such adolescents to grow out of that homosexual stage".

The judge, in his summing up, more or less directed the jury discoun=

t

the insanity defence. The all-male jury reached their verdict in less tha=

n

three hours, and the girls, being under 18, were sentenced to "detention

during Her Majesty's pleasure". The judge ordered that the two be sent to

separate institutions and that they should never meet again. The Departme=

nt

of Justice determined that Juliet was "the more dominant personality and

the leader of the two", so she was flown to Auckland, to a maximum-securi=

ty

prison called Mount Eden, which was, and still is, a brutal Victorian

fortress.

Perry describes Mount Eden as "pretty horrific". There were several

hundred men and about 40 women, almost all of them much older. "There wer=

e

lifers, prostitutes and abortionists," she remembers. "I had some pretty

unpleasant experiences, from lesbians, basically." The day began at 5.45a=

m

with slopping out. The prisoner washed in cold water and then had

breakfast, usually lumpy porridge. Juliet was set to work in the laundry,

where her tasks included washing the inmates' canvas sanitary towers. The=

re

were no games, no library, and exercise was only permitted at weekends. T=

he

regime broke Juliet's health, and she was transferred to the sewing room

under the supervision of Grace Powell. "Juliet was quality," says Mrs

Powell, now in retirement in Auckland. "You couldn't help but like her. I

treated her like a daughter." (Mrs Powell still corresponds with Perry.)

Perry did have the privacy of her own whitewashed cell. Here, she

could recite her favourite poetry-G K Chesterton, James Elroy Flecker, an=

d

Rupert Brooke-and her survival instinct and resilience were extraordinary.

"I felt desperately lonely, but I never felt it was anyone's fault," she

says. "Within the first three months, I got down on my knees in the dark

and said I was wrong, and I was sorry for what I had done. I told myself =

to

stop running away."

After four and a half years, Juliet was moved to another prison and =

a

milder regime. She was given two afternoons a week tuition, passed her

university entrance exams, and took a typing course. Then, shortly after

her 21st birthday, without any warning, she was released. She was given a

new passport in the name of Anne Stuart-Stuart for her maternal

grandmother-and taken straight to Auckland airport. "I was in a state of

shock," she says.

Back in England, she went to live with her mother and Bill Perry in

Hexham, Northumberland. When I ask how her family came to terms with her

come, Anne replies, "We've none of us referred to the past. It's too

painful." She took on her stepfather's name and became Anne Perry. "I nev=

er

lied, but I evaded," she explains. "I would ray I'd been ill and I'd been

abroad."

In Hexham, Perry worked as secretary, then moved to Newcastle-upon-Tyne,

where she found a job in a department store. She also worked as a

stewardess for a local airline, and later as assistant purser on the

Hull-Gothenburg ferry. In the freewheeling Britain of the Sixties, she wa=

s,

in some ways much older than her contemporaries and in other ways much le=

ss

experienced. "I'd never dated, danced, worn make-up or stockings," she

says.

What she wanted to do was be a writer and go to America. Eventually

she was granted a visa and arrived in San Francisco in January, 1967. She

had found a job as a nanny, but the household was "unhappy", she says, an=

d

she was miserable, "a stranger in a strange land". In prison, and after h=

er

release, Perry had explored, and rejected, various kinds of faith. Now,

alone once more, she had an epiphany. Shortly after arriving in Californi=

a,

she joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints and became a

Mormon-a conversion, she says, that made her feel "enlightened, fired-up

and lifted".

"I do believe I owe my survival to the Mormon Church," she says. "Th=

e

Mormons believe we are all children of God and that the fall from

perfection is part of life." This theology of forgiveness and forgetting

has clearly helped her to feel she has suffered enough for her crime. "I

can't be bothered with people who make a profession out of suffering.

Dwelling on your own past pain is self-pitying and a damned nuisance. In

the Mormon Church if you have something you were ashamed of, you want it

washed away, and if you repent, it can be. It's washed out of the Book of

Remembrance in Heaven."

Perry moved to Los Angeles, and found work as a limousine dispatcher=

,

a secretary for a post-production company, and an insurance underwriter.

Her new life was now giving her confidence and success. She lived alone,

and had, she said, a number of "red-hot affairs" with men. "Once or twice=

,

I thought I'd found the right person and I prayed hard that it would work

and then I prayed with gratitude that it hadn't! . .. I'm a writer and I

need to write."

In 1972, Perry lost her job and, hearing that her stepfather was

seriously ill, she decided to come home. Dr Hulme, now Chief of Nuclear

Research at the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment, Aldermaston, gave

her a monthly allowance of =A3100, and also provided a lump sum with whic=

h

she was able to move to a rundown cottage in the village of Darshan,

Suffolk. She resolved to work half-time to earn a living and to devote th=

e

rest of the day to her writing. She had been turning out fantasy stories

for years, but now, in search of a marketable genre, she composed

historical romances set in Arthurian England, the Crusades the English

Civil War and the French Revolution. Her literary models were Charles

Kingsley, Arthur Conan Doyle and Anthony Hope. "My parents fielded God

knows how many rejection slips," she says. Towards the end of 1976, she

acquired a literary agent, and within a few weeks she had a contract for =

a

mystery story set in Victorian England.

In 1979, The Cater Street Hangman became her first published book. F=

or

the next ten years, Perry produced one Pitt mystery a year. She could hav=

e

produced more, she says, but her publisher, St Martin's, would not let he=

r.

In ten years, her sales more than doubled.

The Pitt books are characterised by well observed period detail, a

fascination with miscarriages of justice and the high drama of the law, a=

nd

an intense scrutiny of family secrets, above and below stairs. Anne Perry

says she enjoys detective stories because she likes to see "masks being

ripped off, and to see what people will do under pressure, when they are

afraid . . . "Crime fiction is not my choice. I'm obsessed with what is

right and what is wrong."

Through the Mormon Church in Lowestoft, she met Meg MacDonald, and once

again the daughter of privilege made friends with a woman from the other

side of the tracks. Meg, who was born with a hole in her heart and now

draws a disability pension, ran away from home at the age of 17. Like

Perry, she joined the Mormon church 'in extremis' after the sudden death =

of

her third child.=20

"She would get in a right tiswas whenever the question of capital

punishment came up," MacDonald says, recalling how the truth about Anne

emerged. Y began to suspect something when we studied the Bible. She was

irrationally against King David sending Uriah the Hittite into battle so

that he could have Bathsheba. We were discussing the idea of deliberately

killing someone, and it just came out." She continues: "It's a bogey that=

's

always haunted her. She's always been afraid to give herself to people

because she was afraid that if they discovered the whole crush they

wouldn't like her any more. She is very, very insecure. She looks

confident, but underneath there's a lost little girl."

In 1988, MacDonald moved to Scotland, and Perry followed her. "I cam=

e

to visit Meg," she explains, "and fell in love with the place." In the

Highlands, Meg took on a role which has uncanny echoes of Juliet's earlie=

r

collaboration with Pauline. "We think about names and characters," Meg

says. "Then Anne writes it out in long-hand, a chapter at a time. Anne wi=

ll

read the chapter to me, and we'll go through it with a red pen. We're

always thinking of new things. We went to the Canary Islands and worked o=

n

eight books. We chapterised and characterised for two weeks."

Perry also relies on the woman she calls "Meg No 2"-Meg Davis, her

London literary agent. Davis has played a decisive role in improving

Perry's contracts, and has devised a new series, featuring a new detectiv=

e,

William Monk. In the words of the blurb, Monk has been left "with only ha=

lf

a life, because his memory and his entire past have vanished".

(Predictably, Perry resists the obvious interpretation. "I'm not amnesiac=

,

for Pete's sake. I just don't choose to remember certain things.")

Pauline Parker, part of the past Perry wishes to forget, is more

difficult to track down. Those who protect her will only speak on conditi=

on

of anonymity. But her presence in New Zealand has helped to keep the stor=

y

alive.

When the trial was over, Pauline had been sent to Arohata Prison, ne=

ar

Wellington, on the North Island. She was, at first, intensely depressed,

and found the loss of Juliet almost unbearable. Slowly, she appears to ha=

ve

become a model inmate. She wrote chatty letters to her father and made go=

od

progress with her studies. Without Juliet, her fantasy life dwindled. She

told one correspondent that ``in theory I still write, but in practice I =

do

not". She did, however, continue to sustain several identities signing

herself "Nina", "Rosemarie", "Yvonne" and "Pauline [ugh loathsome name]".

Quite early in her sentence, she deeded she wanted to become a Roman

Catholic nun. The church turned her down but continued to play a vital ro=

le

in her life. Gradually, the hysteria surrounding her name cooled down. In

1958, the Parole Board, evaluating both girls, noted that "individually

neither would have committed this crime, and it was a one-in-a-million

chance that their association was of such a nature as to lead to planning

this outrageous act". When Pauline was finally released, in November 1959=

,

she settled in the North Island and took the name Hilary Nathan.

For the next five years, she was on probation. She worked in a varie=

ty

of manual jobs (washing bottles in a hospital, for instance), studied for

university, and in 1960 began an affair with a female coworker, which

caused her probation officer some concern. She did, however, gain her

university degree. The last official reference to Hilary Nathan occurs in

February, 1967, when she is reported teaching at an English girls' school.

After that, she becomes a figure of mystery. She is known to have

returned home in the Seventies and to have taken a new name. She has kept

in touch with her family, but from a distance, and has pursued a number o=

f

different careers, including work with the mentally handicapped. Reports =

of

her state of health and mind vary. Some say she is "troubled", "sad", eve=

n

"suicidal". Others indicate a more robust condition, pointing out that sh=

e

has been adept at covering her tracks.

Her story has become part of contemporary New Zealand folklore. In

1991, Julie Glamuzina and Alison J Laurie published Parker And Hulme: A

Lesbian View. In the same year, Michelanne Forster, an American playwrigh=

t

living in Christchurch, staged her play Daughters Of Heaven. More or less

simultaneously, Frances Walsh and the film-maker Peter Jackson, who

describe the story as "an open wound that has never healed", had begun

their research for the script of Heavenly Creatures. For the first time i=

n

years, there was widespread speculation about the girls' identity. By the

time Daughters Of Heaven transferred to Wellington, there was a rumour

circulating that Juliet Hulme had become "a writer called Perry".=20

Lin Ferguson, a reporter for the Sunday News, a New Zealand tabloid,

did some research in the local library and in a who's who of authors and

found the gossip to be true. Ferguson now says that she agonised over her

decision to report the story. "I knew I was going to blow up this woman's

life after 40 years," she says, adding that it was Perry's career as a

murder mystery writer that overcame her doubts. Strangely, neither Fergus=

on

nor any rival reporter has made the same effort to unmask, or even to tra=

ck

down, Pauline Parker.

Back in Scotland, Anne Perry is slowly coming to terms with her late=

st

identity. "No, I don't think the world is ever going to forget that I am

both of these people." There is a note of resignation in her voice. "It's

not ever going to go away, but maybe I shall live in such a way that it

will not be what people remember of me." So she continues to write,

obsessively, perhaps in the hope that she can somehow bury her terrible

past in a mountain of fiction.

One morning, towards the end of several days of interviews with Anne

Perry, I asked her, "What is your worst fear?"

"My worst fear about all this," she replied, "is chat you will find

Pauline."=20

 

---

Endnote: Weighed In The Balance, Anne Perry's new William Monk novel, wil=

l

be published by Headline in July. Cain His Brother and Belgrave Square

recent came ...=20

 

 

Caption One: A portrait of Anne Perry by David Eustace.

 

Another time, another country: Anne Perry now live in a remote fishing

village on the north-east coast of Scotland and work steadily on her crim=

e

novels. In 1954, as a 15-year-old schoolgirl in New Zealand (left), she w=

as

herself involved in a brutal murder.

 

 

Caption Two: Pauline Parker and Juliet Hulme walking to their trial; Henr=

y

and Hilda Hulme.

 

Testing time: Pauline Parker (above, left and Juliet Hulme (as Anne Perry

then was) step out together during their trial. The case was a sensation =

in

the New Zealand press, but polite Christchurch society it was taboo topic.

The headmistress of the girl' school instructed parents not to discuss th=

e

murder with their daughters. Juliet's parents, Henry and Hilda Hulme

(right) were not much liked in the university circles where they moved.=20

 

 

Caption Three: Melanie Lynskey and Kate Winslet laying in a field of

leaves.

 

Gateway through the clouds: Heavenly Creatures was the film which raised

the question once more: what happened to New Zealand's notorious 'gym-tun=

ic

murderess'? It depicted their fantasy-filled friendship with what seemed =

to

be great authenticity.

 

Good companions: Anne Perry met her friend Meg MacDonald at a Mormon

meeting. Now they work on Perry's novel together: 'Anne will read the

chapter to me, and we'll go through it with a red pen. we're always

thinking of new things' .

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.3 ---------------

 

From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:08:56 +0930

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 

> I'm very sorry, but I have to be off the list. Nothing personal, but I do

> believe they -were- taking photographs of each other in the bathroom.

 

Is this for real? Maybe it's just me, but isn't that a little rash? Hell, if

it'll make any difference, then sure, they were taking photos of each

other in the bathroom. So what? Is it *that* important?

 

Shannon.

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.4 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 10:34:44 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

> > I'm very sorry, but I have to be off the list. Nothing personal, but I do

> > believe they -were- taking photographs of each other in the bathroom.

>

> Eh? And that's why you're leaving? heh

 

Am I missing something? Was there some kind of heated debate about

exactly what the girls were doing in the bathroom? Why wasn't I notified?

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.5 ---------------

 

From: Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>

Subject: Re: Melanie Lynskey

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:03:30 -0700 (PDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>If Peter Jackson is going to do another true crime story, let me suggest

>that he do the Lizzie Borden story and use Melanie Lynskey in the key role.

 

I'm afraid that would lead to slight type casting.. but I suppose I should

be glad if Melanie got a role.. she has been making us wait hasn't she? : (

 

I'm not very familiar with the Lizzie Borden story, but I think Peter

Jackson wasn't actually very keen on the idea of doing a crime/murder movie.

He needed to be convinced by Fran Walsh. He fell in love with the idea with

more research, but I'm not sure if any other crime story would appeal to him

as much as the Parker-Hulme one. Yet (no, I'm never very decisive) he did

his best work with HC, maybe he should return to this type of movie... I'm

not sure if it'd be a crime one, but one that has the emotional power of

"Heavenly Creatures". "The Frighteners" was good, but it really pales in

comparison to HC, and maybe to even Brain Dead... Both of these movies were

unforgettable, for different reasons though.

 

Whatever he does next, I hope Melanie gets a speaking role!!!!! : )

 

-Thai

----------------------------

"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..

It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow

you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~

 

Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)

---------------------------

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.6 ---------------

 

From: Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>

Subject: Re: my curiosity

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:03:35 -0700 (PDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>I was at a photo shoot today here in Pittsburgh at some particularly gothic

>locals...a graveyard, churches, etc... couldn't help but envision the girls

>there...

 

That's a chilling image, that they are together? It actually conjures in

my mind a very strange image. Where the real Juliet, and Paul have grown

out of their youth, but there is another pair of them... together after all

these years, and roaming the graveyards trying to ask forgiveness. It's a

silly thought, but that's what your message made me think of. : )

 

>more curiosity: Is anyone else into Tori Amos?

 

I'm a early Tori Fan, can't say I understand her latest work. Little

Earthquakes was really something special.

 

>---got my letterboxed copy today---

>

>mpellas@sgi.net

>

>

>

----------------------------

"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..

It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow

you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~

 

Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)

---------------------------

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.7 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Blubberhead(?)

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:50:52 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Thaiphong Vo wrote:

 

> Yet (no, I'm never very decisive) he did

> his best work with HC, maybe he should return to this type of movie...

 

On a related note, does anyone here know anything about that fantasy film

Jackson has been kicking around in his head for a number of years? I

think it takes place in some kind of Borovnia-esque world. In an old

interview I have with Jackson in Cinefantastique (pre-HC), he mentions

the project, and I think he said the title was 'Blubberhead,' or some

similarly weird-sounding name. I'll go back to that article and

double-check.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.8 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: True Life/True Crime

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:13:13 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

In the Peter Jackson Web Chat session:

 

>Liza [user] asks: How easy was it for you to go from directing gore horror

>(Dead Alive) to something so stylistically aesthetic in "Heavenly

>Creatures"?

 

>Peter Jackson answered: It was a challenge, but also incredibly

>refreshing. After finishing Dead Alive, where I was soaked in red colored

>maple syrup for three months, I couldn't face another film like that

>straight away. Heavenly Creatures was fascinating just as a writing

>project let alone directing as we had to be like investigative

>journalists or detectives uncovering the facts of a 40-year-old murder

>case. I'd love to do another "true life" movie again sometime.

 

He actually said "true life" when talking about doing another movie like

HC. I guess it doesn't mean "true crime" as I had suggested in one of my

many taglines. In other words, it doesn't neccesarily have to be

something murderous, gorry, or digusting (something Peter

Jackson-ish)...it could be something like Orson Welles' 'Citizen Kane'

or Woody Allen's 'Love and Death' or Peter Jackson-himself's 'Meet The

Feebles'! That is, he might want to do another satire of a 'true life'

event or person--perhaps something like 'Forgotten Silver'? (To which I

have dubbed the word "psuedo-documentary"; I would love to get a copy of

this or info from anyone on acquiring). How about something like 'Gumpy

Creatures'? Half Forrest Gump, half Heavenly Creatures...I'm joking of

course...I have thought of writing psuedo-documentaries of HC and the

murder trial in a humorous and entertaining way before, something like

Woody Allen's 'A Look At Organized Crime', but that's a whole different

story and nevermind...

 

Anyone has any "true life" ideas out there? Any famous New Zealand

stories or history?

 

--

The knife that is sharp today may be dull

by tomorrow... lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.9 ---------------

 

From: kate ann jacobson <kjac@unm.edu>

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 21:05:46 -0600 (MDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

I just meant that as a joke about the girls taking photographs in the

bathroom. I always burst out laughing whenever Dr. Hulme says that because

he says the line "taking photographs" like it's the worst thing anyone

could possibly be doing in the history of humankind. Sorry. I guess it wasn't

that funny. I would never leave because of that scene, especially if Juliet

did look just like Veronica Lake...

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n094.10 ---------------

 

From: kate ann jacobson <kjac@unm.edu>

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:03:17 -0600 (MDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

 

But I still need to be off the list, and I'm very sorry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n094 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Fri Aug 16 12:29:09 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA17340 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:12:05 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA29255; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:11:07 -0700

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:11:07 -0700

Message-Id: <199608161911.MAA29255@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n095

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n095 --------------

 

001 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Cancel

002 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Premeditated Movie-Watching

003 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Premeditated Movie-Watching

004 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: They're really getting to me, too!

005 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: City of the plains

006 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Guardian article

007 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: Donkey lyrics

008 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: Cancel

009 - John Argentiero <jargent@ - You'll Never Walk Alone redux

010 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: La Boheme

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.1 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:17:14 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

kate ann jacobson wrote:

>

> But I still need to be off the list, and I'm very sorry.

>

>

Farewell sadness

Good morning sadmess.

 

-Bao

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.2 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Premeditated Movie-Watching

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:20:44 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Has anyone heard of anything of Michael Winterbottom? I=92ve been reading

previews on "Jude" (The Obscure) and keep running into "Butterfly Kiss".

Winterbottom is supposedly a British director of "Go Now," "Cracker",

"Butterfly Kiss" and "Jude" (The Obscure, dammit! Why change the title?

I need to ask--). (this is actually much like "Tess" (of the D=92

Urbervilles) directed by Roman Polanski, another Thomas Hardy=92s

novel-title shortened.) (They might as well called "A Madding from The

Crowd, "MAD"!)=20

 

Anyway, "Butterfly Kiss" is described as a "Bitterly moving and

provocative story of two girls on the road, one a mass murderer." Amanda

Plummer who plays Eunice, the angel of death, is "both unwatchable and

fascinating, a doomed soul murdering out of revenge toward God, who has

forgotten her." Miriam, played by Saskia Reeves, is the other girl who

is "in love and in thrall with Eunice". Winterbottom propels the two

through "English landscapes and over stodid English bodies on the fuel

of bloodlust and sex."=20

 

I think this movie might make a good "getting-to-know-you" jingle for

Michael Winterbottom before we all head out to see "Jude". And don=92t sa=

y

you don=92t know that Kate Winslet will be totally nude in it!! Not that

it matters one way or the other...I will watch "Jude" and I will like

it! even if she is nude or dress in steel armor...I guess if you=92ve see=

n

"A Kid in King Arthur=92s Court", you=92re ready for anything...especiall=

y,

"Jude".

 

--

Ed Sanders says: Refuse to be burnt out.

-lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.3 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: Premeditated Movie-Watching

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:55:55 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

Hello all,

 

I saw Butterfly Kiss in London last year, after a couple of weeks in the

north which included driving along the motorways featured in the movie.

It is a very intense movie, certainly not for all tastes. On the one

hand, I was taken with the accuracy of the mise en scene. On the other, I

thought the performances by Saskia Reeve and Amanda Plummer were quite

brilliant, surely a tribute to the director. As to the story, well, it

ain't Heavenly Creatures, but there is something resonant there...

 

cheers

 

Sandra Bowdler

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.4 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: They're really getting to me, too!

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:09:37 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

So this is a good afternoon for cleaning up my e-mail; here's one I meant

to respond to, ages ago.

 

On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Phil West wrote:

 

> On 5 August, Mela wrote

>

> >they're really getting to me.

>

> I know what you mean. I keep finding 'heavenly' resonances in other works

> of art; the film just sort of butts its way in. For instance, I

> can't hear the ending of La Boheme (my favourite opera, anyway), where

> Rudolfo cries out 'Mimi!', without thinking of Juliet's heartbreaking

> 'Gina!'from the liner, just after the second blow. It is one of Puccini's

> most shamelessly tear-jerking moments, with a reprise of the 'Sono andati'

> theme blasting out in the brass and strings. Puccini, like Peter Jackson,

> likes throwing his audience's emotions around; and both do so masterfully.

> Hmmn, not the only similarity in their art, either: any opera fans out

> there?

 

I am a BIG opera fan, but I dislike La Bohe'me intensely. The music on

its own is fine, the story is repulsive: four middle class layabouts play

at being artistes, one of them seduces a working class girl and chucks her

out as soon as she gets sick and a nuisance, then sobs all over her death

bed. The much-vaunted Baz Lurhman Oz in the 50s version only

accentuates all this, IMH(?)O.

OK, flame proof jacket in place.

BTW, there has been a discussion on opera-l recently as to whether that

last Mimi! should be a cry of anguish, or a more questioning tentative

bleat because Rudolfo has not at this point quite realised she's dead.

 

 

> And one to ask. Just what is that grotty gold box that Wendy gives to

> Honora for Christmas 1953??? It's horrible! (Cue Melanie smelling the

> mackerel).

 

Good heavens, don't you know a HANDBAG when you see one?

Or as the septics would say, a purse. (I write from the only major city

in the world described by a friend as having been named after an

accessory) (you have to lisp).

 

cheers

 

sb

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.5 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: City of the plains

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:15:13 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

Here's another old post: Christchurch is very much known as the city of

the plains to this day, in NZ. I visited there recently, my god, the

weather. But it is located on what is quite an extensive flat area for NZ.

 

cheers

sb

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.6 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Guardian article

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:39:26 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

Hello all,

 

Now that most of us have seen the Guardian article, here is a little item

for discussion. I believe it is the same article described in the FAQ as

being originally intended for the New Yorker, and described thus:

 

The New Yorker Magazine. to be published. [mf]

"Robert McCrum was just here [Christchurch] recently writing

the definitive Parker/Hulme story. ...I think his article

will answer a lot of your questions and push all our ideas

about 'the moider' into a whole new territory." [note:

personal communication, mf 94/04/20. jp]

 

 

jp is of course John Douglas Porter, and mf is Marianne Forster, author of

the play Daughters of Heaven (which I think is rather better than PJ has

wished to allow).

 

Anyway, it does not seem to me that the article pushes our ideas about The

Moider into new territory, although I think it tells us quite a bit about

Anne Perry. Discuss.

 

cheers

 

sb

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.7 ---------------

 

From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)

Subject: Re: Donkey lyrics

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 03:15:16 -0800

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, adam abrams wrote:

 

>> Senorita donkey-cita

>> Not so fleet as a mosquito

>> But <<so sweet like>> my chiquita

>> You're the one for me.

 

>OLE!

--Jefferson

 

Wow, how could I forget the best part!?!!? 8^)

 

Thanks to everyone for help completing the lyrics....I'm going to add them

to the FAQ!

 

==========================================================================

Only the best people fight against Adam Abrams

all obstacles... in pursuit of happiness! Vancouver, BC, Canada

--Juliet Hulme, "Heavenly Creatures"

Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html

==========================================================================

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.8 ---------------

 

From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)

Subject: Re: Cancel

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 03:15:20 -0800

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 

>From: kate ann jacobson <kjac@unm.edu>

>Subject: Re: Cancel

 

> I just meant that as a joke about the girls taking photographs in the

>bathroom. I always burst out laughing whenever Dr. Hulme says that because

>he says the line "taking photographs" like it's the worst thing anyone

>could possibly be doing in the history of humankind. Sorry. I guess it wasn't

>that funny.

 

On the contrary, I found it was good for a hearty chuckle! But then you

wrote...

 

 

> But I still need to be off the list, and I'm very sorry.

 

What! Why are you bidding us farewell, really? Are you being whisked off to

South Africa for the good of your health? Just tell them, "I'm _not_ going

without the Heavenly Creatures Mailing List!"

 

Adam, feeling quite whimsical for 3 in the morning

 

==========================================================================

Only the best people fight against Adam Abrams

all obstacles... in pursuit of happiness! Vancouver, BC, Canada

--Juliet Hulme, "Heavenly Creatures"

Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html

==========================================================================

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.9 ---------------

 

From: John Argentiero <jargent@wam.umd.edu>

Subject: You'll Never Walk Alone redux

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:03:17 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Yo all!

Since music has been discussed for the last few days or so, thought I'd

interject this relatively unrelated tidbit

While flipping though the most important philosophical work of our

generation, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I chanced upon our

favorite ending credit song, You'll Never Walk Alone.

Flip to page 128, where the Magrathean defense system has just launched

some 5 million year old missiles at our heroes in the Heart of Gold.

Eddie the overly-chipper computer begins crooning, perhaps in a twisted

electronic Mario Lanza emulation, which fails to have the desired calming

effect on the crew members.

Well, talk about tangents that have nothing to do with Heavenly

Creatures...

For further randomness, check out Harry Dean Stanton singing "Just A

Closer Walk With Thee" on acoustic guitar in Cool Hand Luke

Also, Winton Marsalis played "Closer Walk With Thee" on trumpet at some

Olympic ceremony after the bombing.

Now back to discussions about the movie! :)

Stickily,

John

 

_________________________________________________________________________

| John Argentiero | The state is the embodiment |

| 9441 Copenhaver Drive | of the great myth that we |

| Potomac, MD 20854 | can all live at each other's |

| (301) 762-4327 | expense. |

| jargent@wam.umd.edu | -Clemenceau |

| *********** http://www.wam.umd.edu/~jargent/winslet.html *********** |

|_________________________________________________________________________|

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n095.10 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: La Boheme

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:15:48 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Sandra Bowdler wrote:

 

> I am a BIG opera fan, but I dislike La Bohe'me intensely. The music on

> its own is fine, the story is repulsive: four middle class layabouts play

> at being artistes, one of them seduces a working class girl and chucks her

> out as soon as she gets sick and a nuisance, then sobs all over her death

> bed. The much-vaunted Baz Lurhman Oz in the 50s version only

> accentuates all this, IMH(?)O.

 

La Boheme is a very simple love story that has a lot of truth and beauty

to it--the end is tragic(it's always is)because Mimi, who undeservingly

so, dies. Rudolfo, the poet, seduces and nourishes her, but he scares

for her illness and of losing her through death. It is a pitiful opera,

in which all the participants' lives are miserable--the poet, the

painter, the philosopher and the short, round guy. There is that final

moment of goodness and truth that pulled them together...there was a

reckoning of human nature...of kindness and of love...a moment of

separation. The death bed/moment of truth scene shows hopes in mankind,

even if our lives are miserable and that the end is inescapable.

 

> OK, flame proof jacket in place.

 

In La Boheme there is one thing that thrive the opera and that is

love...you might not like the way they've done it--but in the end it is

the only thing that mattered. :)

 

--

"The end is everywhere: Art still has truth, take refuge there."

Matthew Arnold -lybao@earthlink.

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n095 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Sat Aug 17 18:01:55 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA27430 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:01:48 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (root@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA20634; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:01:20 -0700

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:01:20 -0700

Message-Id: <199608180101.SAA20634@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n096

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n096 --------------

 

001 - clumber@ici.net (Ann or E -

002 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

003 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

004 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, July 1, 1996

005 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, May 6, 1996

006 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

007 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Multimedia: See It, Hear It, Feel It

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n096.1 ---------------

 

From: clumber@ici.net (Ann or Eric Kingman)

Subject:

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:25:30 -0400

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

<Anyway, it does not seem to me that the article pushes our ideas about

< The Moider into new territory, although I think it tells us quite

a bit

< about Anne Perry. Discuss.

 

Well, off the top of my head, and without having the article in front of me

and having last read it almost a week ago, the article made me think quite a

bit about such things as:

This close relationship with neighbor Meg: In a sense, Meg and Anne

Perry work together in the same fashion as Juliet and Paul -- together they

dream up the stories, and the characters, and it seems to me that Anne

basically writes it down. Fascinating.

 

Anne Perry "followed" Meg to Scotland...because she couldn't bear to

be apart?? Obviously we don't know for sure if that's the reason (maybe it

was just the beautiful scenery), but I thought that was an odd thing for

Anne Perry to admit to, knowing that she was being interviewed not as Anne

Perry but as Juliet Hulme under an alias.

 

Lastly, (for now), the bit about AP's worst fear being that someone

will find Pauline: why is that her worst fear? Is it that Pauline's life

would be ruined and AP still cares deeply about that? Is it that Pauline

might shed some new light on certain "facts"? Or is it that Anne/Juliet

would then know how to find Pauline and might make contact, despite herself?

 

Okay, I know I've stated the obvious...anyone else?

 

Ann Kingman

clumber@ici.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n096.2 ---------------

 

From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au

Subject: Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 17:24:43 +0930

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 

Hello hello hello -

 

I've just been taking a look at the Chat Zone thing on Bryan's page.

Why are none (or so few) of those people a part of this list? Surely

they could not be ignorant of it? It seems sort of silly to have both

forums running side by side, yes?

 

Or does it have something to do with the fact that some people have email

and no internet (the web part) or vice versa? I dunno. I just thought it'd

be real nice to have 'em all over here (and then they can make their

messages as long as they like!)

 

Oh well...

 

Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>

 

'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n096.3 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 11:43:06 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au wrote:

>

> Hello hello hello -

>

> I've just been taking a look at the Chat Zone thing on Bryan's page.

> Why are none (or so few) of those people a part of this list? Surely

> they could not be ignorant of it? It seems sort of silly to have both

> forums running side by side, yes?

 

The difference between the Chat Zone and the Mailing List is that the

Chat Zone is for chats and the Mailing List is for discussions. Most of

the people are bypassers leaving their comments for the public (some

will eventually join the mailing if they stick around long enough, I

believe), while the mailing list is reserve for those few individuals

who can appreciate our genius! I think. It's like a Gateway to the

Clouds...and on the day of the Death of Christ...well, you know, how it

goes...

 

> Or does it have something to do with the fact that some people have email

> and no internet (the web part) or vice versa? I dunno. I just thought it'd

> be real nice to have 'em all over here (and then they can make their

> messages as long as they like!)

 

You know what: I really like the Chat Zone at first because the

wallpaper (background) reminded me so much of Borovnia, that I later

change my Netscape E-mail previewing plane (background) to "muddy" gray.

Recently, I just took the exact wallpaper from HeavenlyWeb's Chat Zone

out of my cache and place it in E-mail to use as background while I read

and compose! Nonetheless, I am more productive now! If only I can change

the "Send" button in Netscape to "Transmit to Borvonia!", I think I have

it made!

 

> Oh well...

>

> Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>

>

> 'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'

 

I see your point Exactly!

 

--

Ooh, pretty! -lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n096.4 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, July 1, 1996

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 13:10:07 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: message/rfc822

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Disposition: inline

 

Received: from us.dynix.com (us.dynix.com [192.150.149.1]) by belgium.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23114 for <LYBAO@EARTHLINK.NET>; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:50:11 -0700 (PDT)

Received: from lancelot.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)

id AA13339; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:52:16 -0600

Received: by lancelot.us.dynix.com (8.6.13/200.1.1.4)

id SAA28469; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:48:05 -0600

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:48:05 -0600

From: nbeach@lancelot.us.dynix.com (Newport Beach Public Library)

Message-Id: <199608170048.SAA28469@lancelot.us.dynix.com>

To: LYBAO@EARTHLINK.NET

Content-Type: text/plain

 

People Weekly July 1 1996, v46, n1, p108(1)

 

Think of England. (English actress Kate Winslet had to constantly remind hersel

 

(Screen Pages: 1-1) Document Page 1

 

 

After baring her soul as a wistful romantic in Sense and Sensibility,

English actress Kate Winslet bares the rest of herself as Sue

Bridehead, a feisty, independent-minded heroine in Jude. The film,

based on Thomas Hardy's 19th-century novel Jude the Obscure, is due

this fall. How comfortable was Winslet in her first nude scene? "Not

at all! No way! Oh, it was awful," says Winslet, 20, who also stars as

Ophelia in Kenneth Branagh's forthcoming Ham- let. "I was so nervous,

I starved myself for a month beforehand. I went through all the

paranoias: 'My bum's massive. My breasts are saggy. I've got a spotty

back. Chicken arms. I can't do it.' " But she did. "I just had to keep

remembering that the scene was a real turning point in the story and

to get on with it. At the end of the day, you forget that you're

completely naked."

 

 

REQUESTED BY: ly TIME/DATE: 18:48:03 16 AUG 1996

 

TOTAL COST: $0.00 SOURCE: Magazine Index

 

COPYRIGHT 1996, Information Access Co., ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n096.5 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, May 6, 1996

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 13:11:33 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: message/rfc822

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Disposition: inline

 

Received: from us.dynix.com (us.dynix.com [192.150.149.1]) by belgium.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23263 for <LYBAO@EARTHLINK.NET>; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:51:17 -0700 (PDT)

Received: from lancelot.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)

id AA05668; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:53:20 -0600

Received: by lancelot.us.dynix.com (8.6.13/200.1.1.4)

id SAA28474; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:49:09 -0600

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:49:09 -0600

From: nbeach@lancelot.us.dynix.com (Newport Beach Public Library)

Message-Id: <199608170049.SAA28474@lancelot.us.dynix.com>

To: LYBAO@EARTHLINK.NET

Content-Type: text/plain

 

People Weekly May 6 1996, v45, n18, p175(1)

 

Kate Winslet. (20-year-old British actress overcame a weight problem as a teena

 

(Screen Pages: 1-2) Document Page 1

 

 

The most important beauty tip Kate Winslet ever received, she says,

came from her mum. "She said if I ever start to get the family

whiskers--because there are women in my family that do get

them--never, ever pluck! Always trim. And a makeup-artist friend told

me that when I get a spot, don't squeeze! And if you must squeeze,

it's essential to exfoliate." The 20-year-old actress keeps her

toilette simple--with two exceptions. "My most prized possession is my

pair of eyelash curlers, which I wouldn't sell to anyone," she says.

Neither would she give up her dozens of pairs of funky boots, "because

they mean that my feet are on the ground. Besides, I can't bear

pathetic little shoes." That kind of spunk, says Richard Briers, who

plays Polonius to her Ophelia in Kenneth Branagh's forthcoming Hamlet,

reflects Winslet's "bloom of youth." As the fragile Marianne in Sense

and Sensibility, the 119-lb.Winslet was compared to a Pre-Raphaelite

maiden in the British press, but as a Reading, England, teenager

tipping the scales at 185, she better resembled the chunky cherubs

painted by Rubens. "For a good two or three years my nickname was

Blubber," she says. "Being overweight is a family trait too. But I

knew that I wouldn't work if I stayed that way."

 

 

REQUESTED BY: ly TIME/DATE: 18:49:07 16 AUG 1996

 

TOTAL COST: $0.00 SOURCE: Magazine Index

 

COPYRIGHT 1996, Information Access Co., ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n096.6 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 13:12:39 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: message/rfc822

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Disposition: inline

 

Received: from us.dynix.com (us.dynix.com [192.150.149.1]) by belgium.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23485 for <LYBAO@EARTHLINK.NET>; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:53:48 -0700 (PDT)

Received: from lancelot.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)

id AA15143; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:55:53 -0600

Received: by lancelot.us.dynix.com (8.6.13/200.1.1.4)

id SAA28488; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:51:41 -0600

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:51:41 -0600

From: nbeach@lancelot.us.dynix.com (Newport Beach Public Library)

Message-Id: <199608170051.SAA28488@lancelot.us.dynix.com>

To: LYBAO@EARTHLINK.NET

Content-Type: text/plain

 

People Weekly March 4 1996, v45, n9, p106(1)

 

Austen-tatious.(actress Kate Winslet appreciates the way Jane Austen wrote her

 

(Screen Pages: 1-1) Document Page 1

 

 

English actress Kate Winslet, 20, who plays the lovestruck Marianne

Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility, is dumbstruck to be among this

year's Oscar nominees for Best Supporting Actress. But she credits

Jane Austen's realistic, clear-eyed view of romance, which dates back

to the early 1800s, for drawing viewers today. "It's hard when you're

really in love with someone," says Winslet, who has been there, done

that. "I'll sit by the phone for a few days, and then I eventually say

to myself, 'Come on, girl. There's more to life than this crud.' Just

because these characters lived almost 200 years ago and wore corsets

doesn't make them aliens. Girls today can relate." Winslet's current

role, as Ophelia in Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet, will take her even

further back in history, but, she insists, "I'm not just some period

babe. In fact, what I'd really like to play is a wild Valley Girl."

 

"I wouldn't want to be Julia, but I wouldn't mind looking like her."

 

 

REQUESTED BY: ly TIME/DATE: 18:51:40 16 AUG 1996

 

TOTAL COST: $0.00 SOURCE: Magazine Index

 

COPYRIGHT 1996, Information Access Co., ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n096.7 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Multimedia: See It, Hear It, Feel It

Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 16:15:50 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Amnesty International - The Secret Policedogs Electric Auction

http://www.web13.co.uk/amnesty/

 

Kate Winslet's Birthday Countdown

http://www.tnef.com/kate_winslet.html

 

Showbusiness News with Kate Winslet

http://www.audionet.com/pub/lyons/lyn0503a.ram

 

Berg's Cyberplex 30 (Kate Winslet talks about HC)

http://www3.t1.com/publicnews/pnplaza.html

 

Sense and Sensibility's "My Father's Favorite"

http://www.sony.com/music/ArtistInfo/SenseAndSensibility/sense2.wav

 

Kate Winslet & Emma Thompson Soundbytes on S&S

http://www.realaudio.com/contentp/rabest/premrad_index.html

 

 

I must also mentioned that there used to be an AVI clip of "A Kid in

King Authur's Court" on the Disney website (I swear I've seen it, but

have no recollection of downloading it!)--it is no longer there, of

course. I have e-mailed the webmaster, agonizingly, twice about it, but

IT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU CAN GET IT STILL,

blah blah blah. So if anyone out there downloaded this clip, we really

admire you! -just give me a 'bing'--drop pins and needles for MCI...

 

--

"I have seen the future and it is just like

the present, only longer." -lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n096 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Mon Aug 19 21:18:11 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA18756 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:17:12 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA26921; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:16:43 -0700

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:16:43 -0700

Message-Id: <199608200416.VAA26921@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n097

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: RO

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n097 --------------

 

001 - "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@ - Joining the mailing list!!!!

002 - Donald Chin <donaldc@nets - Re:Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

003 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: your mail

004 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - La Puccini

005 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Kate's wardrobe

006 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

007 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Heavenly Tragedians

008 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - THOSE FRIGHTENERS

009 - Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com - Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

010 - mpellas@sgi.net (Michael - Re: 'Heavenly Creatures...whatever...'

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.1 ---------------

 

From: "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@hotmail.com>

Subject: Joining the mailing list!!!!

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 17:05:36 -0700

Content-Type: text/plain

 

subsingle

 

---------------------------------------------------------

Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

---------------------------------------------------------

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.2 ---------------

 

From: Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>

Subject: Re:Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:18:29 +1000

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Hi all,

 

Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au> wrote...

 

> I've just been taking a look at the Chat Zone thing on Bryan's page.

> Why are none (or so few) of those people a part of this list? Surely

> they could not be ignorant of it? It seems sort of silly to have both

> forums running side by side, yes?

>

> Or does it have something to do with the fact that some people have email

> and no internet (the web part) or vice versa? I dunno. I just thought it'd

> be real nice to have 'em all over here (and then they can make their

> messages as long as they like!)

 

I thought the same thing a couple of months back when the list traffic

started to fall. I think the ease of entering messages via a web server is

the attraction (although I wouldn't call the four line limit one). Maybe

people just don't like using an email.

 

What Bao Ly said about the differences between the Chat Zone and the list

is also true. But I have seen some continued in depth discussions being

carried out over the Chat Zone. It seemed quite interesting (but quite

frustrating for person entering the information I am sure).

 

Whatever the reason, they can't possibly not know of the existence of the list.

 

Regards, Donald

 

--

Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>

"Lost somewhere in Australia...

and fanatical about Heavenly Creatures and Jane Austen!"

<http://netspace.net.au/~donaldc>

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.3 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: your mail

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:20:09 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, Ann or Eric Kingman wrote:

 

> Lastly, (for now), the bit about AP's worst fear being that someone

> will find Pauline: why is that her worst fear? Is it that Pauline's life

> would be ruined and AP still cares deeply about that? Is it that Pauline

> might shed some new light on certain "facts"? Or is it that Anne/Juliet

> would then know how to find Pauline and might make contact, despite herself?

 

I think she probably just doesn't want anything else about that time in

her life to be dredged up. If Pauline was discovered, the fascination

with the case would be re-doubled, the interviews would start again, and

you know that pretty soon someone in the press might try to arrange a

"reunion."

 

I doubt that Perry has any desire, hidden or otherwise, to see Pauline

now. It's been over 40 years, after all. It's like when you go to a

school reunion--there are some people you simply aren't that

interested in seeing again, even if you were once great friends with them.

You were both different people back then, and you're no longer a part of each

other's lives. At least that's how I often feel at those kind of

things. I imagine Perry feels something similar, though undoubtedly

compounded by the memory of her crime.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.4 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: La Puccini

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:48:33 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Hallo Sandra, all

 

On Friday 16 August, Sandra consigned the 'four middle class layabouts'

in La Boheme to the 22nd circle of opera hell (where they are punished

by being shown the trailers to 'Heavenly Creatures' without ever getting

to see the film). Some time ago, I had rather whimsically said that the

final 'Mimi!'s in that opera reminded me of Juliet's 'Gina!' from the

liner at the end of HC, in one of those 'ooh, this makes me think of that

film again, am I going crazy?' sort of ways. Are you with me?

 

I think I said it was my favourite opera, but I now realize (& it's

not even the day of the death of Christ) that like Sandra, it's the music

that I find most affecting, and yes, the story is full of nastiness and

stupidity, whatever you think of the love story. I am an occasional

percussionist, and once played cymbals for quite a good production of the

opera, and those last clashes are a classic squidgy cymbals moment (in

case anyone's interested, the end of Mahler 8 is the transcendental

Romantic cymbalist's moment - aaagh!), so perhaps that's why I adore it

(s'queer).

 

That said, part of the tragedy of the thing is that they *are* layabouts,

surely? They don't really know what they're doing, they haven't grown up

and taken responsibility for themselves, etc. In the Australian video

version of La Boheme, Rudolfo's 'Mimi's certainly suggest that he hasn't

the foggiest what's going on... Personally, I'll stick to my ancient

Beecham recording, featuring Maria de los Angeles and the

incredibly-difficult-to-spell-if-you're-a-court-transcriber Jussi

Bjorling, alias THAT (recorded 1956, I think, so too late for the

girls to have heard it). Very romantic Mimis.

 

Pontificate... Does anyone have any observations on HC and the nature of

tragedy? (I realise it's quite a large question!!!) The savage ironies

in the film remind me of Euripides a little. The University Eng. Lit.

course here has a compulsory Tragedy paper, which I don't teach myself.

However, a friend of mine does, and I will strongly suggest to him that he

lets me loose with a class and a copy of HC. Of course, the academic

atmosphere here sometimes makes '50s Christchurch look liberated, but I

think they've heard of 'film studies'.

 

Yours being frightfully decent about everything (and trying, really trying

not to let the La Boheme fish-eating scene remind him of Bert's mackerel)

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.5 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Kate's wardrobe

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:26:03 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

 

On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, Bao Ly wrote:

 

> I think this movie might make a good "getting-to-know-you" jingle for

> Michael Winterbottom before we all head out to see "Jude". And don=92t sa=

y

> you don=92t know that Kate Winslet will be totally nude in it!

 

Alright, I won't say it. But according to a cool new article on Kate=20

(from Weight Watchers magazine, of all things), she's also had to do a=20

similar scene in 'Hamlet.' A scene invented for the film=20

version. Branagh...you sly dog. Looks like Kate will be unwrapped on=20

Christmas day right along with all those handy pocket diaries, socks, and=

=20

Mario Lanza records. =20

 

The article, which details Ms. Winslet's stunningly decisive victory over=

=20

her metabolism, can be found on John Argentiero's Unofficial Kate page. =20

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.6 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:28:53 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, Bao Ly recorded Kate Winslet as having said:

 

> "I wouldn't want to be Julia, but I wouldn't mind looking like her."

 

Who is she referring to? Julia Roberts? God, I hope not. IMHO,

compared to Kate, Julia Roberts isn't even recognizably female.

 

But of course, people have called me a fanatic.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.7 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Heavenly Tragedians

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:46:32 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 19 Aug 1996, Phil West wrote:

 

> Pontificate... Does anyone have any observations on HC and the nature of

> tragedy? (I realise it's quite a large question!!!)

 

Hmm...I'm trying to recall my college days and what my Shakespeare

professor told me about tragedy...

 

But what the hell did he know, really? I think that HC is an excellent

example of tragedy in that there is a genuine sense of inevitability to

the murder, despite its horrible nature and the apparent senselessness of

it. I suppose that using the events in Victoria park (along with the

shipboard fantasy) as a framing device helps hammer this point home. We

know that something bad is going to happen to 'Mummy,' and that

everything in the film is going to lead up to it. Just like we know that

Lear, or Oedipus, or Macbeth can only come to unhappy ends.

 

A film sets a tone for itself from the opening minutes, and we know that

the film has to resolve itself in that tone eventually. Paul and

Juliet's story must end in violence and heartbreak, and that's a large

part of what makes the giddy heights of their love so extraordinarily

evocative and powerful. We're acutely aware of the fact that their

happiness is transitory (and perhaps also dimly aware of the transitory

nature of our own lives and moments of true happiness and belonging).

 

Didn't Wallace Stevens say something like, "Death is the mother of

beauty?" I take that to mean that only with the loss of something can we

come to appreciate its true value. To me, Paul and Juliet's relationship

(which spawned an entire vivid, magical world) is something so powerful

and uncontrollable that it simply couldn't last very long. And for this

reason, even despite the matricidal turn it takes...it's beautiful. And

tragic.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.8 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: THOSE FRIGHTENERS

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:58:37 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Wow, check out these quotes from Filmzone:

 

THE FRIGHTENERS doesn't suffer from a lack of original ideas. On the

contrary, it suffers because it tries to assemble too many of them. The

film never seems to have any idea where it's going, but it's intent on

getting there as fast as the Steadicam operator can run.

 

It get worst...

 

There are a smothering amount of slick CGI effects here, likely to lull

the audience into a stupor in hopes that they won't be irritated by the

sloppy story. It's like Director Peter Jackson was worried that this

would be his last chance to play with this much money, so in a panic he

randomly splattered his conceptual canvas with everything but the

kitchen sink.

 

Even worst...

Despite its title, it's just not, well, frightening. For more potent

chills, check out that episode of "Scooby Doo" where the mummy runs

around moaning, "Coin! Coin!"

 

-- Dan Vebber

 

 

They're really getting me still: I went to the only Arthouse in Orange

County this weekend to see "Trainspotting" and noticed two restaurants:

Hamburger Hamlet and Joe's(?)Grill, to which the signs reads "Heavenly

Hamburger", "Great steaks too!"

 

--

"Me sexy? Oh no, no...no way." she exclaims turning red. "Sometimes I

think I may be a man, because I'm happiest when I'm scruffy and dirty."

(I hate to ask this, but could 'Blubberhead' be named after Kate

Winslet?)

 

p.s. I see that Phil West has started a question, "HC and the nature of

tragedy?" which is something had been wanting to asked or discussed for

a couple months. "Discuss Perry" or "Discuss HC and the nature of

tradgedy" --anyone? Well, I'm off to the doctor now and I'm bringing

Diello with me! 'Comedy tomorrow, tragedy tonight!'-lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.9 ---------------

 

From: Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 16:03:07 +0000 (GMT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 19 Aug 1996, Jefferson F. Morris wrote:

 

> On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, Bao Ly recorded Kate Winslet as having said:

>

> > "I wouldn't want to be Julia, but I wouldn't mind looking like her."

>

> Who is she referring to? Julia Roberts? God, I hope not. IMHO,

> compared to Kate, Julia Roberts isn't even recognizably female.

 

Actually, I think the person she was refering to in this insance was

Julia Childs.

_______________________________________________

| |

| Tim Baglio http://www.nas.com/~raven/ |

| raven@nas.com Bellingham, WA |

|_______________________________________________|

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n097.10 ---------------

 

From: mpellas@sgi.net (Michael Pellas)

Subject: Re: 'Heavenly Creatures...whatever...'

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 00:14:10 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Well, he has this excuse, that

when I showed him HC he needed several large whiskies (and a potted

account of the FAQ) to recover.

>After almost twenty viewings...it still brings tears to my eyes...

 

Michael: he has just put up a huge Tori Amos piccy you might like -

though I'm afraid I can't say I approve. I shall send him a digital

Melanie Lynskey immediately (as I have to tell him how I loathe T.A.).

>'At's OK Phil...I have shown HC to about 5 people so far...I have not come

across another Heavenly Whatever yet. Someone even said I was "Psychotic"

when I went into an account of the FAQ

 

When, oh when, will we get 'The Frighteners' in England? Soon, please...

>Just got to see it...I made such a fuss when Melanie got on stage and

during the other reference I think everybody else thought I was crazy..

 

one whatever to another

 

Mike

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n097 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Tue Aug 20 18:23:46 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA03784 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:54:07 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA00591; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:48:47 -0700

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:48:47 -0700

Message-Id: <199608202348.QAA00591@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n098

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n098 --------------

 

001 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

002 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Heavenly Thoughts

003 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - 'A HANDBAG?' ????!!!

004 - edinman@felix.TECLink.Net - A Reunion

005 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

006 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

007 - Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com - Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

008 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Reviews: Cineaste, Dec. 1, 1995

009 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Reviews: SF Chronicle Nov. 23, 1994

010 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Reviews: Advocate, Nov. 29, 1994

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.1 ---------------

 

From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au

Subject: Re: Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:34:54 +0930

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 

It's just me whining again -

 

> Maybe people just don't like using an email.

 

But email is beautiful...

> What Bao Ly said about the differences between the Chat Zone and the list

> is also true. But I have seen some continued in depth discussions being

> carried out over the Chat Zone. It seemed quite interesting (but quite

> frustrating for person entering the information I am sure).

 

That's another thing I meant to mention. For what some of these people are

trying to say, they really are not using the right medium. It did not seem

to me that most of these people were just there to say hello (although some

undoubtedly were).

> Whatever the reason, they can't possibly not know of the existence of the

> list.

Yeah! Everyone knows about The List, don't they? (Well, they *should*)

 

I know, I know. This doesn't strictly belong in a discussion of HC, but it

has to go somewhere, so I chose to stick it here, my chosen place in which

to stick anything worth saying.

 

Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>

 

'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'

(I'm actually not too sure about this anymore...)

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.2 ---------------

 

From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)

Subject: Heavenly Thoughts

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:05:50 -0800

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net> wrote:

 

>They're really getting me still: I went to the only Arthouse in Orange

>County this weekend to see "Trainspotting" and noticed two restaurants:

>Hamburger Hamlet and Joe's(?)Grill, to which the signs reads 'Heavenly

>Hamburger', 'Great steaks too!'

 

Hmmm... and Heavenly Kate's going to be in Hamlet. Wow. Still working on

the meaning of the steaks.

 

Well, now I feel bold enough to confess the little mental double-take I do

when I come across a "Parker Street" or someone named "Perry". And like

someone else wrote here some time ago, when I encounter a "Deborah", I

can't resist stressing the middle syllable. If only to myself.

 

mpellas@sgi.net (Michael Pellas) wrote...

 

>I have shown HC to about 5 people so far...I have not come

>across another Heavenly Whatever yet. Someone even said I was "Psychotic"

>when I went into an account of the FAQ

 

Well... we all know it's everyone _else_ who's bonkers!

Or are we all stark raving MAD? Could be!

 

==========================================================================

Only the best people fight against Adam Abrams

all obstacles... in pursuit of happiness! Vancouver, BC, Canada

--Juliet Hulme, "Heavenly Creatures"

Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html

==========================================================================

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.3 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: 'A HANDBAG?' ????!!!

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:42:04 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Hallo all and sundry (and Sandra again)

 

On Friday 16 August, in reponse to another of my whimsical questions, this

time about Honora's 1952 Christmas present, Sandra wrote

 

>Good heavens, don't you know a HANDBAG when you see one?

 

If I may say it one more time (well, Paul & Julie did like a bit of Oscar

Wilde here and there)... [Cue Great-Aunt Ina voice]

 

'A HANDBAG?!'

 

It can't be, surely, it's got a LID! And it's rectangular! I know some

handbags don't have handles, but you'd be hard pressed to carry that thing

clasped in your hand! Ow! My guess is it's a jewelry box, or a box

of something-or-others (more yukky ornaments for the sideboard). Didn't

Wendy work in the lingerie department of a big department store?

Doesn't matter really, I guess, as whatever it is, it is quite clearly

the most hideous Christmas present ever (ranking just above Bert's socks).

 

Cream cakes would have been a much better idea - eh, Wendy?

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.4 ---------------

 

From: edinman@felix.TECLink.Net (edinman)

Subject: A Reunion

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:21:42 -0500

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Jefferson wrote:

>I doubt that Perry has any desire, hidden or otherwise, to see Pauline

>now. It's been over 40 years, after all. It's like when you go to a

>school reunion--there are some people you simply aren't that

>interested in seeing again, even if you were once great friends with them.

>You were both different people back then, and you're no longer a part of each

>other's lives. At least that's how I often feel at those kind of

>things. I imagine Perry feels something similar, though undoubtedly

>compounded by the memory of her crime.

 

 

I tend to think attraction and repulsion are really just two sides of the

same coin. They were not "different people back then." We're always the

same people no matter how much we may want to forget certain things about

our past.

 

Whatever inner feelings Perry may have about Pauline are, as Jefferson

says, "undoubtedly compounded by the memory of her crime." But I think her

public expression of fear toward seeing Pauline are, arguably, an

indication she really would like to see her. If she wasn't so defensive or

said she really couldn't care less I might feel differently, but it would

appear there are still some real unresolved conflicts there and, court

orders aside, I suspect one of Perry's very supressed desires is to see

Pauline again at least once before she dies. --Ed

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.5 ---------------

 

From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:54:12 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 18 Aug 1996, Tim Baglio wrote:

 

> > > "I wouldn't want to be Julia, but I wouldn't mind looking like her."

> >

> > Who is she referring to? Julia Roberts? God, I hope not. IMHO,

> > compared to Kate, Julia Roberts isn't even recognizably female.

>

> Actually, I think the person she was refering to in this insance was

> Julia Childs.

 

Julia Childs? I guess that makes sense, but only if she wants to "cook"

like her, and not "look" like her. A typo, I assume.

 

--Jefferson

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.6 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Heavenly Web Chat Thingy

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:45:56 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au wrote:

 

> Yeah! Everyone knows about The List, don't they? (Well, they *should*)

 

Well, maybe someone should post a message to the Chat Zone to let them

know--this message will help them do so a little, though no one could

fully appreciate us.

 

--

"We have decided how sad it is for other people that they cannot

appreciate our genius..." -lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.7 ---------------

 

From: Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: ] Kate Winslet: People Weekly, Mar. 4, 1996

Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:57:55 +0000 (GMT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Jefferson F. Morris wrote:

 

> On Sun, 18 Aug 1996, Tim Baglio wrote:

>

> > > > "I wouldn't want to be Julia, but I wouldn't mind looking like her."

> > >

> > > Who is she referring to? Julia Roberts? God, I hope not. IMHO,

> > > compared to Kate, Julia Roberts isn't even recognizably female.

> >

> > Actually, I think the person she was refering to in this insance was

> > Julia Childs.

>

> Julia Childs? I guess that makes sense, but only if she wants to "cook"

> like her, and not "look" like her. A typo, I assume.

 

No... I think everyone deep down has a desire to look like Julia

Childs. I know I want to. The hunched back is so attractive these days.

_______________________________________________

| |

| Tim Baglio http://www.nas.com/~raven/ |

| raven@nas.com Bellingham, WA |

|_______________________________________________|

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.8 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Reviews: Cineaste, Dec. 1, 1995

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:43:17 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

HEAVENLY CREATURES

 

In the opening sequence of Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures, a

travelogue film details the wonders and beauties of Christchurch, a

seemingly bucolic New Zealand community. These scenes of steepled

churches, rolling hills, and lush dales are abruptly interrupted by

tracking and handheld shots of two young girls running frantically

through the woods. As the narration reaches its monotonous close, the

film cuts to the two girls exiting the woods, their bodies bloodied,

screaming that "Mother's been killed." Like the haunting contrast of the

white- picket-fenced community and a sliced ear in David Lynch's Blue

Velvet, this prologue similarly sets the film's dark tone by pairing the

mundane with the perversely bizarre.

 

Based on the true story of Pauline Parker (Melanie Lynskey) and Juliet

Hulme (Kate Winslet), who in 1954 plotted and killed Pauline's mother,

Honora (Sarah Peirse), the screenplay draws from the pages of Pauline' s

diary to reconstruct the events leading up to the brutal matricide. A

dumpy working class girl, Pauline is immediately attracted to the

cosmopolitan and beautiful Juliet and her carefree disregard for

authority. The girls form an intense bond, an adolescent amour fou.

Their parents become increasingly concerned, unwittingly drawing the

girls even closer as allies in the 'war' against the dogma of adulthood.

In their need to escape, the two construct an elaborate narrative, an

Arthurian kingdom with rakish men and damsels in distress. They build

shrines to their heroes, James Mason and Mario Lanza, and conjure up

nightmarish fantasies of their ominous foe, Orson Welles.

 

What makes Heavenly Creatures so fascinating is that Jackson literally

renders these fantasies on the screen. The small clay figurines that

Juliet molds as characters in their story transform into lifesize clay

people who save them from the wretched adults. In one sequence, Pauline

is being probed by a psychiatrist about the appropriateness of her

relationship with Juliet. Frustrated with the doctor's inquiries,

Pauline imagines the roguish hero of their fantasy tale impaling the

doctor, much to her delight. In another sequence, the two girls are

chased home by Harry Lime, Orson Welles's character from The Third Man,

his black-and-white screen image framed inside their world of color.

 

 

Throughout the film, Jackson highlights this frightening tale's elements

of social class, suggesting that this act of matricide resulted not only

from the frenzy of teen angst but that it was also possibly a product of

their social positions. Juliet's furtive imagination is condoned in the

bourgeois household of a philosopher father and marriage counselor

mother. Pauline's imaginary musings, by comparison, take on the quality

of dementia, seemingly due to her working-class background. Though the

psychological dimension of Juliet's penchant for the imaginary is

derived from parental neglect, Pauline's is attributed to class envy, to

a desire to rid herself of her own identity, rather than just lose

herself momentarily in fantasy.

 

Jackson's portrait of the two self-pro-claimed "heavenly creatures" is

ultimately far more sympathetic to the trials of adolescence than

critical of their crime. But Heavenly Creatures never presumes to be a

documentary. Instead, we are privy to a fascinating murder story, a

perverse coming-of-age tale told from the unlikely perspective of those

on the wrong side of the law. And unlike Jackson's previous gorelest

flicks (Bad Taste, Dead Alive), the monsters and demons of this artfully

crafted film are not otherworldly but set in the guise of adulthood and

a rigid moral code.

 

PHOTO (BLACK & WHITE): Sarah Peirse (left), Melanie Lynskey (center) and

Kate Winslet star in Heavenly Creatures.

 

~~~~~~~~

 

By John Fried

 

Directed by Peter Jackson; starring Melanie Lynskey, Kate Winslet, Sarah

Peirse, Diana Kent and Sam O'Connor; VHS, color, 99 rains. A Miramax

homevideo release.

 

 

 

Copyright 1995 by Cineaste. Text may not be copied without the express

written permission of Cineaste.

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.9 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Reviews: SF Chronicle Nov. 23, 1994

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:50:07 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Fascinating Study Of Teenage Killers =

 

 

 

EDWARD GUTHMANN, Chronicle Staff Critic =

 

 

HEAVENLY CREATURES: Drama. Starring Melanie Lynskey, =

 

 

Kate Winslet and Sarah Peirse. Directed by Peter Jackson. Written by

Jackson and Frances Walsh.

 

(Rated R. 99 minutes. At the Clay, the Shattuck in Berkeley, the Marin

in Sausalito, Camera 3 in San Jose and Palo Alto Square.) =

 

 

Little darlings they weren't. At 15, when most teenage girls were

swooning over pop stars and first crushes, Pauline Parker and Juliet

Hulme were plotting coldblooded murder. =

 

 

On June 22, 1954, during an afternoon stroll in a Christchurch, New

Zealand, park, the girls placed a brick inside a nylon stocking and

bashed it repeatedly against the head of Pauline's mother. =

 

 

``Deceased had been attacked,'' a police report noted, ``with an animal

ferocity seldom seen even in the most brutal murders.'' =

 

 

New Zealand film maker Peter Jackson recreates that murder and the

circumstances surrounding it in ``Heavenly Creatures,'' a chilling,

amazingly accomplished new film that opens today at the Clay and other

Bay Area theaters. A critics' winner at this year's Toronto Film

Festival, it stars two remarkable newcomers, Melanie Lynskey and Kate

Winslet, as Pauline and Juliet. =

 

 

Coming from Jackson, who cut his cinematic teeth on the horror comedies

``Bad Taste'' and ``Dead Alive,'' ``Creatures'' is a big surprise. It

would have been easy to make a pulpy, over-the-top murder yarn --

focusing on the murder and reinforcing the standard perception of the

girls as fiends without mercy. =

 

 

Instead, the film he's made is an evenhanded, fascinating look at two

lives gone wrong. Jackson and co-writer Frances Walsh take pains to

examine the weird trajectory of the Parker-Hulme friendship, and imagine

what happened to make it go wrong. =

 

 

They refuse to see Juliet and Pauline as monstrous sprouts from a demon

seed, but demonstrate the girls' humanity and vulnerability --

suggesting that each of us, ultimately, has a similar shadow inside. =

 

 

Jackson opens the film, with tongue in cheek, showing an early- '50s

newsreel that describes Christchurch as a peaceful, well-ordered place.

He cuts rapidly to a brief glimpse of the murder scene and then flashes

back to 1952, the year that Juliet, a British transplant, enrolled in

the strait-laced Christchurch Girls High School. =

 

 

Smug, precocious, smarter than her teachers, Juliet instantly connects

with Pauline, an overweight misfit who draws horses and keeps to

herself. Bonded by their love for writing, by a passion for singer Mario

Lanza and by the fact that both suffered long-term childhood illnesses,

Pauline and Juliet form an exclusive, intensely imaginative society of

their own. =

 

 

``We have such extraordinary telepathy,'' Pauline writes. ``We are both

stark, raving mad.'' =

 

 

DREAMY UTOPIA =

 

 

Together, they write a series of richly detailed ``novels'' that

describe a dreamy utopia called Fourth World and a medieval fantasy

kingdom called Borovnia. In voice-over narration taken verbatim from

Parker's journals, Pauline describes the Fourth World as ``full of peace

and bliss,'' adding that she and Juliet ``have an extra part of our

brain that can appreciate it.'' =

 

 

Before long, Pauline has grown so attached to Juliet and her worldly

lifestyle that her own humble family becomes an object of embarrassment.

When Juliet goes to a sanitarium after a recurrence of tuberculosis,

Pauline writes her, ``I have to report that the lower classes are

terrifically dull.'' =

 

 

With time, the friendship turns obsessive, causing both sets of parents

to wonder whether the girls have become lovers. Finally, when Juliet's

parents decide to send her to South Africa to live with relatives, and

Pauline wants to go along, her mother refuses. =

 

 

``Suddenly,'' Pauline writes, ``the idea of getting rid of this obstacle

occurs to me.'' =

 

 

``Heavenly Creatures'' captures the heightened emotionalism of

adolescence -- the myopic fever in which Pauline and Juliet created

their alternate universe -- better than any other film in recent memory. =

 

 

In a wonderful montage, interlocked by the swelling romance of a Lanza

song, Jackson demonstrates the escalating passion of the friendship: We =

 

see the girls in class, biking on a country road, eating dinner, dancing =

 

in front of a cinema that's playing a Lanza movie; we see the imperious =

 

Juliet, building from clay the mythical figures of Borovnia. =

 

 

GIDDY TEENAGERS =

 

 

During its first hour, in fact, ``Creatures'' bears a strong resemblance

to ``The World of Henry Orient'' (1964), the wonderful George Roy Hill

film about a pair of giddy teenagers who romp through Manhattan and

idolize an eccentric concert pianist played by Peter Sellers. Juliet and

Pauline are about the same age -- 14 or 15 -- and have the same sense of

impulsive, madcap play. =

 

 

The difference is that Jackson takes us inside the heads of his

characters, showing the world from their deluded perspective, and

demonstrating, in several ingenious ways, the thin line that Pauline and

Juliet rode between fantasy and reality. =

 

 

When Pauline speaks of crossing the threshold into the Fourth World, for

example, Jackson creates a morphing sequence that places the girls in a

wonderland of giant butterflies, voluptuous gardens and magical white

horses. =

 

 

And when Pauline has sex with one of her parents' male boarders,

``Creatures'' shows her interior fantasy: a scene in Borovnia, with

life-size versions of the clay figures that Juliet sculptured. =

 

 

PERFECT FOR THE PARTS =

 

 

In the lead roles, Lynskey and Winslet are impeccably cast. Winslet,

older by two years, was 17 when the film was made, more experienced than

Lynskey, and used those factors to the character's advantage. She's

supposed to be the sophisticated, more self-composed member of the duo,

and she looks it. =

 

 

Lynskey, on the other hand, had no experience outside of school plays.

She brings to the role an openness, an emotional transparency that's not

only touching but also perfectly suited to her character. There's not a

lot of technique in her performance, only an intuitive gift and an

identification with her character that's eerie and heartbreaking.

Jackson has called ``Creatures'' a ``murder story about love, a murder

story with no villains'' -- which is true, and another way of saying

that it's a character study, both fanciful and psychological, and not a

standard murder yarn. Because of his generous, compas sionate approach,

``Creatures'' is all the more moving -- and unforgettable. =

 

 

=04=1A =

 

 

 

DAY: WEDNESDAY =

 

 

DATE: 11/23/94 =

 

 

PAGE: D1 =

 

 

=A9 11/23/94 , San Francisco Chronicle, All Rights Reserved, All

Unauthorized Duplication Prohibitted.

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n098.10 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Reviews: Advocate, Nov. 29, 1994

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:46:10 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Worlds apart

 

Heavenly Creatures directed by Peter Jackson (Miramax)

 

It's very rare nowadays to see a film that is so audacious in its

narrative, so startling in its visual style, so emotionally disturbing

that you're simply overwhelmed. Peter Jackcson's "Heavenly Creatures,"

an astoundingly innovative feature from New Zealand, is such a fihn.

Premiering at the Toronto Film Festival where it won the critics' award.

"Heavenly Creatures" is likely to generate debate about friendship: its

joy and rewards -- and also its hazards.

 

Set between 1952 and 1954 Christchurch, the movie is based on the true

story of two bright teenage girls from opposite sides of the social

spectrum. A product of poor, uneducated family, Pauline (Melanie

Lynskey) is a shy, insecure girl who's literally snap out of her shell

by the arrival to school of Juliet (Kate Winslet), flamboyant,

self-assured English girl whose neglectful parents are absorbed in their

professions.

 

Chronicling the events leading to a brutal murder, the film is more a

psychological thriller than a docu-drama of a tabloid crime. Jackson

who cowrote the script with Frances Walsh, delves deep into the psyche

of two eccentric girls whose friendship goes beyond affection into

obsessive attachment -- an intense physical and psychological passion.

 

Drawing on his skills in puppets, Jackson brings to life a mythical

kingdom called Borovnia, a world in which the increasingly histerical

girls vividly engage in sexual escapades and violent revenge fantasy:

figure disembowels Pauline shrink when her parents force her into

counseling.

 

As the withdraw more and more into their imaginary world, their

concerned parents attempts to separate them -- to disastrous results.

Ultimately, the boundaries between reality and fantasy blur, and the

unbalanced girls plot a hideous crime for which they are convicted and

sent to prison.

 

"Heavenly Creatures" is a breakthrough film for Jackson, who's mostlyy

known in the international film circuit for his sci-fi and horror flick

Bad Taste, Dead Alive), some of which have achieved cult status.

Jackson's restless camera swoops spins, and his sound track is filled

with operas as well as songs by Mario Lanza, who is the girls' romantic

ideal.

 

Dazzling direction, a talented cast, an authentic script (based on the

real-life Pauline's diaries) make for a truly mesmenzing film.

Distressing but always exhilarating to watch, "Heavenly Creatures"

invents a whole, new film language to capture the subtle, perilous

nuances of an unusual bond whose lesbian dimensions are never overtly

acknowledged.

 

 

-Emanuel Levy

 

 

Copyright 1994 by Advocate. Text may not be copied without the express

written permission of Advocate.

 

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n098 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Wed Aug 21 17:09:14 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA09842 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:08:28 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (root@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA04409; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:04:20 -0700

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:04:20 -0700

Message-Id: <199608220004.RAA04409@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n099

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: RO

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n099 --------------

 

001 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Reviews: Source Unknown (?)

002 - Ameyumi@aol.com - Heavenly mush?

003 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Heavenly mush?

004 - mpellas@sgi.net (Michael - Re: Heavenly mush?

005 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Tagline Riff

006 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: 'A HANDBAG?' ????!!!/versions

007 - Douglas J K <c9315678@ali - Butterfly Kiss

008 - Douglas J K <c9315678@ali - A Heavenly Convention

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.1 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Reviews: Source Unknown (?)

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:54:20 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

By Susan Polk

 

Heavenly Creatures is not a film for the faint of heart. Based on the

true story of two New Zealand teenagers who, fearing separation, bashed

one of their mothers to death in 1954 in order to try to save their

obsessive relationship from being torn apart. Far from being a simple

true-to-life horror film, Heavenly Creatures goes into great detail as

to how the mechanics of dysfunction operate, and how such a relationship

can progress from being merely unhealthy to deadly with the proper

combination of circumstances.

 

The story dips in and out of reality, alternately exploring the girls'

growing friendship and the fantasy world they create and inhabit as

projections of their subconcious minds. At first the friendship seems

fairly normal - both ***'s lower-class parents and ***'s intellectual,

uppercrust family approve of the girls finally finding a soulmate. As

the escapist behavior increases and the friendship takes on lesbian

overtones, however, both sets of parents attempt to separte the two and

are met with frightening ferocity. Most adamant is ***'s mother, who (to

make things all the worse) reviles her daughter for having lost her

virginity to a male boarder. So the seed is planted - the girls' hatred

for the world which doesn't understand them and the parents who seek to

hold judgement over them is focused on **'s mother.

 

As their imaginary kingdom expands, so do the actions and morals of

those who inhabit it, and in this way the girls come to grips with the

concept of murder in the corporeal world. The inevitable is set in

motion, and the tale heads pell-mell to it's horrible conclusion, which

only comes in the final moments of the film, the act itself not being so

important as the reason why. This is not as clear as it one would like

it to be, although ***'s motivations are fairly well spelled out, given

that her parents left her in the Bahamas for five years while she

recovered from TB - a solid case of fear of abandonment and parental

resentment if ever there was one. ***'s psychology is not so clear, as

she was introverted but had a stable and loving family, and although

hormones and supressed emotions can certainly do a lot of damage, just

what threw the final switch remains a mystery.

 

The film is lovingly photographed, and careful attention is given to the

fact that the friendship did indeed begin as an innocent one. But given

the known outcome, the spectre of death shows itself early on, and the

sense of forboding will make your blood run cold.

 

~~~~~

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.2 ---------------

 

From: Ameyumi@aol.com

Subject: Heavenly mush?

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:48:18 -0400

 

What is the address to heavenly mush?

Lisa

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.3 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Heavenly mush?

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 20:12:46 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Ameyumi@aol.com wrote:

>

> What is the address to heavenly mush?

> Lisa

 

Hello,

 

The address is purple.cow.net 8888

 

You will need to either a Telnet application or Mush Client to get in.

If you need further infos, you might find this e-mail I send to another

creature helpful. Good luck...

 

(snip...)

(snip...)

(snip...)

 

--

 

1. You will need either a Telnet appliciation or a Mud/Mush Client--the

latter is strongly recommended because telneting hardly get you through

anymore; and it just does not provide the same functionalities that a

Mush Client can. To find yourself a Mud/Mush Client

(shareware/freeware), I recommend you do a search for the word "Mud

Client" in Yahoo (or check out the following website if you're a Windows

95 user):

 

http://www.rahul.net/galen/client.html

 

Depending on what operating system you use, you must choose one that is

right for you. For Unix, the most popular by far is TinyFugue; for

Windows 95, I use MushClient; for Macs, you might want to look at the

following site:

 

http://www.eden.com/~hsoi/mud/#clients

 

 

2. After you find a Mud/Mush Client, you should read the instruction on

how to get to Heavenly MUSH and how to do things once you're there. This

instruction is provided on HeavenlyWeb under the "New Stuff" section:

 

http://www.reflection.org/heavenly/newstuff.html

http://www.reflection.org/heavenly/media/hcmush.txt

 

I also strongly recommend that you read the Mud/Mush mannual to learn

yourself some Mush codes--though I'm sure some creatures inhabitant

there, would be delighted to help out a new user.

 

 

3. You would want to create your character and make yourself at home.

Have fun exploring Pauline and Juliet's world. So far, there is only

Ilam and Gloucester--but Melanthe Alexian (Pauline) is working on

Borovnia and Port Levy next. Heavenly Mush is a place on Living Fiction

for new users learning Mush codes, you see a lot of other characters

that is not HC. We need more creatures user like yourself on. Good luck

getting into MUSH! I hope you find a Mud Client.

 

--

"...never before have I hit so many creatures so hard for so little

reason..." -Pauline Parker. lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.4 ---------------

 

From: mpellas@sgi.net (Michael Pellas)

Subject: Re: Heavenly mush?

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:02:56 -0400 (EDT)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

"...never before have I hit so many creatures so hard for so little

reason..." -Pauline Parker. lybao@earthlink.net

 

>Pardon my apparant slip of mind...but when did she say that?

 

Michael

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.5 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Tagline Riff

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:34:40 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Michael Pellas wrote:

>

> "...never before have I hit so many creatures so hard for so little

> reason..." -Pauline Parker. lybao@earthlink.net

>

> >Pardon my apparant slip of mind...but when did she say that?

>

> Michael

 

 

1953, Jan. 10 (Sat).

 

"...never before have I hit so many creatures so hard for so

little reason..."

 

[note: Quoted by G&L, p. 77, as an example of a misleading quote taken

out of context during the trial. In context, it was part of a

description of PYP's helping to 'muster sheep' while visiting a farm,

through the Methodist Church PYP and Wendy attended. G&L noted the

allusion to Churchill's 'famous speech' though didn't identify it or

give the original quote. It was:

 

Never in the field of human conflict was so

much owed by so many to so few.

 

Winston Churchill

Tribute to the Royal Air Force,

House of Commons, Aug. 20, 1940.

 

which followed Britain's triumph over Goering's Loftwaffe in the "Battle

of Britain." Note that PYP used the same allusion in an ironic sense

when Nicholas was caught in her bed by HD Rieper. jp]

 

Crucial FAQ material! [not in the film]

 

--

"My other tagline is a footnote." -lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.6 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: 'A HANDBAG?' ????!!!/versions

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:37:32 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

OK fellow Whatevers, I had a closer look and I guess it's not a handbag.

I had thought it resembled ones my mother used to have. But how can you

say it's the most hideous chrissie pressie ever, when you've seen what

poor old Honora got from Wendy in 1954?

 

I got this from the English video, which I just received. It seems to me

to be identical to the Australian video (not as yet available on

sell-through), which is also I think identical to the Australian cinema

release version, apart from having the masking removed. They all have the

bloody Bill playing tennis and arriving at Ilam scenes, and none of them

show the gout of blood in this place of disease and decrepitude.

 

cheers

Sandra

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.7 ---------------

 

From: Douglas J K <c9315678@alinga.newcastle.edu.au>

Subject: Butterfly Kiss

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:00:29 +1000 (EST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

I saw "Butterfly Kiss" a while back. It really is worth having a look at

(especially for HC fans). Not that it is similar...but the female

relationship, and the effect intense relationships can have on a person's

social behaviours is something that is explored in this film.

 

I agree with whomever said that the performances were really good. It is

gritty British realism at is best. The soundtrack is great...and it has a

kicker of an ending. The presentation, particularly the direction really

is impressive (so I'm looking forward to Michaal Winterbottom's "Jude" for

this reason).

 

I would be interested to hear from HC fans of their impressions

"Butterfly Kiss" films. One interesting comparison point may be the difference in the

relationships of the two women in the respective films. Hope you can all

see it.

 

 

Cheers from Kate Douglas.

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n099.8 ---------------

 

From: Douglas J K <c9315678@alinga.newcastle.edu.au>

Subject: A Heavenly Convention

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:30:23 +1000 (EST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

Does anyone think that sometime in the future there would be interest in a

Heavenly Creatures convention of sorts? After all, the Trekkies have them.

Or are we unlike the Trekkies in that regard.

 

Perhaps we should all make a pilgramage to New Zealand and pay homage to

the historical site of HC.

 

Just a wacky idea....

 

Cheers from Kate Douglas.

 

 

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n099 ---------------

 

From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Thu Aug 22 22:01:22 1996

Received: from lists1.best.com (lists1.best.com [206.86.8.15]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA19407 for <bryanw@shellx.best.com>; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:01:19 -0700

From: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Received: (root@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA15206; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:00:30 -0700

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:00:30 -0700

Message-Id: <199608230500.WAA15206@lists1.best.com>

Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n100

BestServHost: lists.best.com

Sender: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Errors-To: heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com

Reply-To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com

Status: O

 

 

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n100 --------------

 

001 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: A Heavenly Convention

002 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Kiwis on video?

003 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: Heavenly Convention

004 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Heavenly Convention

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n100.1 ---------------

 

From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Subject: Re: A Heavenly Convention

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:29:49 +0800 (WST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

 

 

On Thu, 22 Aug 1996, Douglas J K wrote:

 

>

> Does anyone think that sometime in the future there would be interest in a

> Heavenly Creatures convention of sorts? After all, the Trekkies have them.

> Or are we unlike the Trekkies in that regard.

>

> Perhaps we should all make a pilgramage to New Zealand and pay homage to

> the historical site of HC.

 

 

ROFL!!! They would *FREAK OUT* in Christchurch. I have just been there

recently: EVERY MENTION has been expunged. Nowhere is the video or the

soundtrack displayed, and that goes for Auckland too. Once Were Warriors,

now, a nice little story about domestic violence amongst the dispossessed

and disadvantaged, is evident at every turn: I had no idea there were so

many editions of the book, not to mention the video, soundtrack, posters,

t shirts etc etc. But that awful crime of only 40 years ago - we're not

mentioning thet, thenk you very much.

 

cheers

Sandra

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n100.2 ---------------

 

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>

Subject: Kiwis on video?

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:31:41 +0100 (BST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

A question for any healthy Kiwis out there. I remember a long time ago,

when I was a humble digest reader, that someone (Jane, I think? Kiaora

Karen??) said that the NZ video of HC was likely to be released for

purchasing purposes in August this year. Hmm, I guess it's August now, so

is there any sign of it? Sandra's comments on the British version being

identical to the Australian one confirm my suspicions that this cut

(bloody Bill but no bloody hospital floor) is sort of the final version

that's been decided on. However, what about those extra bits - are they

in the NZ general release? I've just re-read the FAQ description of the

extra scenes, and, frankly, I want to see Kate W in a strappy strop and

Melanie doing some more of that wonderfully disturbing glowering...

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n100.3 ---------------

 

From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)

Subject: Re: Heavenly Convention

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:05:38 -0800

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>From: Douglas J K <c9315678@alinga.newcastle.edu.au>

 

<snippety snip...>

>Perhaps we should all make a pilgramage to New Zealand and pay homage to

>the historical site of HC.

>

>Just a wacky idea....

 

Hey, not so wacky. That's exactly what I want to do one day... hopefully

within a year or two! It's my dream trip: the HC Tour - Christchurch, CGHS,

Ilam, Port Levy. Also drop in on Wingnut Films in Wellington. And maybe

pick up a handy diary at Whitcombe & Tombs'. And on the last day, take the

18 Cashmere to Victoria Park. I think I would want to leave some flowers

there, or something.

 

Hey, I just had a brainwave. Let's all go together! Hey kids, can you say

"group rates"?

 

Can anyone think of other stops they'd make on a NZ trip?

 

Adam

 

==========================================================================

Only the best people fight against Adam Abrams

all obstacles... in pursuit of happiness! Vancouver, BC, Canada

--Juliet Hulme, "Heavenly Creatures"

Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html

==========================================================================

 

 

 

 

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n100.4 ---------------

 

From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Heavenly Convention

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 03:22:53 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

adam abrams wrote:

>

> >From: Douglas J K <c9315678@alinga.newcastle.edu.au>

>

> >Perhaps we should all make a pilgramage to New Zealand and pay homage to

> >the historical site of HC.

> >

> >Just a wacky idea....

>

> Hey, not so wacky. That's exactly what I want to do one day... hopefully

> within a year or two! It's my dream trip: the HC Tour - Christchurch, CGHS,

> Ilam, Port Levy. Also drop in on Wingnut Films in Wellington. And maybe

> pick up a handy diary at Whitcombe & Tombs'. And on the last day, take the

> 18 Cashmere to Victoria Park. I think I would want to leave some flowers

> there, or something.

 

One and a half to two year would be great! While, after my graduation, I

would definitely want to visit England -and- Christchurch...Don't forget

the Sanatorium (Cashmere) outside of Christchurch Adam!! Of course, we

would need to get Bryan W and Kate J (who is still on the list, btw,

through some heavy nagging/convincing--I am happy to announce! hi kate-)

to come along also because they're about the same age and we can play

with them.

 

>Hey kids, can you say "group rates"?

 

The buddy-system.

 

--

"To think that so much could have happened in so

little time caused by so few." -lybao@earthlink.net

 

 

 

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n100 ---------------