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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n149 --------------
001 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - MTV transcript.
002 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - MTV transcript.
003 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Jude (no spoilers)
004 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Cinema Papers: Jude
005 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Jude (no spoilers)
006 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: The Quiz
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n149.1 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: MTV transcript.
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:02:29 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello,
Here's a transcript of yesterday's review of JUDE on MTV.
-------------Start------------
Thomas Hardy's classic 'Jude the Obscure' is reborn in the form of
Christopher Eccleston whose love for Kate Winslet brings joy, agony and tragedy.
Kate Winslet: It is the most extraordinary tragic story, you know, you never
ever think that something like this could possibly happen. Sadly he (Hardy)
was so heavily critisized for it that he never wrote another novel again, he
only wrote poetry for the rest of his life.
Clip from the film: Sue buying the "anti-christ" statues at a marked.
Christopher Eccleston: He's an orphan really whose mother and father, he
didn't have a lot of time with his mother and father, he was brought up by
his aunt and he was always too sensitive for that world. He just wants
another life other from what he was given. He dreams of a different invironment.
Clip: Jude quoting the bible in Latin at a bar.
Kate Winslet: She suffers from the fact that she can't really ever
whole-heartedly fall in love, she could just allow herself to love Jude, for
God's sake, you know, come on Sue just love the guy, you do, just be honest
with that - and then, you know, she would have been a heck of a lot happier.
Clip: Sue asking Jude to give her away to Phillotson.
Kate Winslet: It is important for period films to always feel contemporary
and to have a kind of..(Kate smiling and then saying:) what's the bit, what
is the next bit, what am I gonna try and say ? and not be p....(I cannot
make out that word..bad English skills I reckon) so that it remains that
people that live and breath in 1996 can relate to it now, because people
haven't changed.
Clip: Sue drinking beer and being chased up the stairs by a laughing Jude.
The real tears you'll cry during this film is by the sad waste of two great
actors. More than anything to do with what happens to the two characters in
this story. The atmosphere is dead gloomy and colourless from start to
finish. Furthermore, there's no driving force in the plot that centeres on
the most miserable Jude and his love for a woman who can never explain what
she can't stay with him. In other words: Weird.
----------------end------------
The interviews with KW and CE is from this summer's film festival in Cannes.
Kate has the dyed hair from Hamlet. Good interviews.
BTW, I am finding all the talk about Denmark and Hamlet quite amusing, and
let me just add, that the town Hamlet is situated in is called Helsingor,
and the castle is Kronborg (and don't let anyone else tell you diffently).
To classical actors it's quite a big deal acting Hamlet in Kronborg, Kenneth
Brannagh has done Hamlet here with Sophie Thompson as Ophelia (Emma's
sister). In other words, it would be cool to have Kate do the Ophelia thing
here. Amleth was made as a film a few years ago btw, with Christian Bale and
Kate Beckinsale (from Much Ado...)by Danish director Gabriel Axel, who won
an oscar for Babette's feast in 1988, if I remember correctly.
And another thing, Jane Austen didn't write Sense and Sensibility in 1811.
She began writing it in 1794 as Elinor and Marianne, and then later in 1796
revised it to the Sense and Sensibility we know today. It was published in 1811.
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
No voice divine the storm allayed
no light propicious shone
when snatches from all effectual aid we perish
each alone
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n149.2 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: MTV transcript.
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:24:10 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello, sorry if I am posting this twice, but it didn't turn up it my mail...
----
>Hello,
>Here's a transcript of yesterday's review of JUDE on MTV.
>
>-------------Start------------
>Thomas Hardy's classic 'Jude the Obscure' is reborn in the form of
Christopher Eccleston whose love for Kate Winslet brings joy, agony and tragedy.
>
>Kate Winslet: It is the most extraordinary tragic story, you know, you
never ever think that something like this could possibly happen. Sadly he
(Hardy) was so heavily critisized for it that he never wrote another novel
again, he only wrote poetry for the rest of his life.
>
>Clip from the film: Sue buying the "anti-christ" statues at a marked.
>
>Christopher Eccleston: He's an orphan really whose mother and father, he
didn't have a lot of time with his mother and father, he was brought up by
his aunt and he was always too sensitive for that world. He just wants
another life other from what he was given. He dreams of a different invironment.
>
>Clip: Jude quoting the bible in Latin at a bar.
>
>Kate Winslet: She suffers from the fact that she can't really ever
whole-heartedly fall in love, she could just allow herself to love Jude, for
God's sake, you know, come on Sue just love the guy, you do, just be honest
with that - and then, you know, she would have been a heck of a lot happier.
>
>Clip: Sue asking Jude to give her away to Phillotson.
>
>Kate Winslet: It is important for period films to always feel contemporary
and to have a kind of..(Kate smiling and then saying:) what's the bit, what
is the next bit, what am I gonna try and say ? and not be p....(I cannot
make out that word..bad English skills I reckon) so that it remains that
people that live and breath in 1996 can relate to it now, because people
haven't changed.
>
>Clip: Sue drinking beer and being chased up the stairs by a laughing Jude.
>
>The real tears you'll cry during this film is by the sad waste of two great
actors. More than anything to do with what happens to the two characters in
this story. The atmosphere is dead gloomy and colourless from start to
finish. Furthermore, there's no driving force in the plot that centeres on
the most miserable Jude and his love for a woman who can never explain what
she can't stay with him. In other words: Weird.
>----------------end------------
>The interviews with KW and CE is from this summer's film festival in
Cannes. Kate has the dyed hair from Hamlet. Good interviews.
>
>BTW, I am finding all the talk about Denmark and Hamlet quite amusing, and
let me just add, that the town Hamlet is situated in is called Helsingor,
and the castle is Kronborg (and don't let anyone else tell you diffently).
To classical actors it's quite a big deal acting Hamlet in Kronborg, Kenneth
Brannagh has done Hamlet here with Sophie Thompson as Ophelia (Emma's
sister). In other words, it would be cool to have Kate do the Ophelia thing
here. Amleth was made as a film a few years ago btw, with Christian Bale and
Kate Beckinsale (from Much Ado...)by Danish director Gabriel Axel, who won
an oscar for Babette's feast in 1988, if I remember correctly.
>
>And another thing, Jane Austen didn't write Sense and Sensibility in 1811.
She began writing it in 1794 as Elinor and Marianne, and then later in 1796
revised it to the Sense and Sensibility we know today. It was published in 1811.
>
>Ciao,
>
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
No voice divine the storm allayed
no light propicious shone
when snatches from all effectual aid we perish
each alone
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n149.3 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Jude (no spoilers)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:46:52 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Just back from Jude-the-rather-odd.
Kate fans will adore it, as she is far and away the best part of the film
(though that Eccleston bloke isn't too dreadful). Full frontal nudity
fans will also not be disappointed. Dear me. Cold compresses and
smelling salts to be taken along to the cinema by serious KW droolers.
Adam 'No blood please, I'm Canadian' Abrams be warned: it's maple syrup
time again. Perhaps Pierre Vinet mixed it up for them, for he was also
the stills photographer. ('Smile!' - remember)
Lastly, it appears some of the filming was done in NZ. What an awfully
long way to go. I wonder if Kate popped in on Melanie?
Phil
P.S. Nearly forgot, fans of 'Absolutely Fabulous' might like to note the
bizarre cameo of June Whitfield as Jude's mother. What a life, eh,
Eddie's mother one moment, Jude-the-miserable's the next. Now that's
tragedy for you, as me'old ma used te'say.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n149.4 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Cinema Papers: Jude
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 16:27:08 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think Sandra Bowdler wants me to post this for you all - so here's one
courtesy of *Bufo borovnian* herself.
Mary Colbert, Cinema Papers No. 111, Aug. 1996, pp. 36-8
49=E9me Festival International du Film, Cannes 1996
=20
=20
After the offbeat d=E9but of Butterfly Kiss (1995), Jude is a
surprising follow-up for British television wunderkind Michael
Winterbottom. He transforms a favourite literary work into a
Merchant-Ivory period piece, injecting a contemporary sensibility into
the stylish portrait of a young man determined to change his destiny
from stone mason to academic.
Winterbottom was attracted to the story as a 15-year-old at school,
letting it simmer away until the success of his first feature opened the
door for him and producer Andrew Eaton to a choice of projects offered
by Head of BBC Film, Mark Shivas. Winterbottom:
It's a great story, a very romantic story about someone who is able to
survive the worst things that can happen and still be true to his
ideals. The most impressive thing about Hardy is that he takes very
ordinary people, in very ordinary circumstances, puts them through the
most extraordinary experiences, and transforms them into heroes and
heroines.
The appeal of both central characters, Jude (Christopher Ecclestone) and
the love of his life, Sue Bridehead (played brilliantly by Kate
Winslet), is that they are characters ahead of their time who suffered
love on an epic scale in their attempts to defy the limitations that
society tries to impose. The key to the film's success - and here
scriptwriter Hossein Amini (Dying of the Light, Wings of a Dove) plays a
pivotal role with his sparse dialogue clear of anachronisms, and fresh,
direct modern characters - was depicting a romanticism and idealism
devoid of excessive sentimentality and lyricism.
Winterbottom and team avoid the clich=E9d pitfalls of period dramas
with a strongly-visual cinematic approach (all the more successful for
literature scholars: Winterbottom studied at Oxford Eaton at Cambridge).
Jude's optimism and defiance are celebrated against harsh, gritty
backdrops not of Hardy's Wessex (now Dorset), but a dark, gloomy, heavy
atmosphere of broody wintry landscapes (virtually forbidding) of
Scotland (Edinburgh), the north of England between October and December,
and New Zealand (as a stand-in for the English summer).
Against this wide canvas - divided into separate sections as Jude
moves to different towns - the central sparks are the intense love story
between Jude and his cousin Sue, a modern young woman (a teacher),
complicated by their respective relationships with his first wife,
farmer's daughter Arabella (Rachel Griffiths), and his r=F4le model, and
later Sue's husband, the schoolmaster Phillotson (Liam Cunningham). But
just as they are liberated from these connections, it is ultimately
society which dooms their prospects (a frequent Hardy theme) of
happiness (together). Their passionate and tragic relationship is etched
impressionistically in strokes at times deliberately reminiscent of
Truffaut's Jules et Jim (1961), with Winslet charging up the screen with
her vibrant looks and intelligent charisma.
While Ecclestone and Cunningham deliver compelling performances, as
in Butterfly Kiss, the women steal a number of the scenes with brilliant
performances, Winslet confirming she has an extraordinary career ahead
of her.
Like other tragic love stories (Hardy=92s speciality), the lovers ar=
e
ultimately doomed but, in their defeat, Winterbottom=92s film celebrates
the courage and idealism of the human spirit.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n149.5 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Jude (no spoilers)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 16:36:14 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Well, I've just come back from the Centre of the Known Universe -
Albury-Wodonga (just one segment of the glittering circuit
Albury-Wodonga - Wagga - Wollongong - Bathurst - Dubbo), although only as
far as Melbourne, not only in time for a non-stop weekend of food drink
and opera (only recordings alas), but also this latest breaking news:
On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Phil West wrote:
>
> P.S. Nearly forgot, fans of 'Absolutely Fabulous' might like to note the
> bizarre cameo of June Whitfield as Jude's mother. What a life, eh,
> Eddie's mother one moment, Jude-the-miserable's the next. Now that's
> tragedy for you, as me'old ma used te'say.
>
>
What an odd career June Whitfield has had. I don't know if anyone out
there remembers her as Eth in Take It From Here (on the wireless,
sweeties) with Jimmy Edwards (who lived near me in Cottesloe with his
boyfriend before he died): then Mrs M, now Jude. Pass the bolly stolly.
It does remind me of a chilling moment recently on French and Saunders:
both in school uniform, Jen sort of tall and slimmish with longish
blondish hair, Dawn sort of shorter and bulkier with dark curly hair - oh
god, they're not ... are they? But no, it was something else all
together.
cheers
sb
...who is petitioning the International Nomenclature Board for a generic
change from *Bufo* to *Rana*.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n149.6 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Re: The Quiz
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:24:48 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Michaela and BaoLy have caught me with my facts down! =8^O
>Am I completely batty here,
>> or do other people see this too? Discuss! (:
>Yes, I got this wrong question wrong for no entirely good reason
...
>Open your Scenario Magazine to pge 195 --
>>Juliet sits back in her chair. She holds Pauline's hand. Honora admires
>>Juliet's knitting--a red cardigan.
>
>This has always been my conception of it. It was a sweater, the same one
>Pauline wears on the bus.
D'oh! I didn't think to check my _Scenario_! On the other hand, my guiding
priciple in forming the questions was: can you tell the answer _solely_
through viewing the film with no additional study materials? (That's why I
had to toss a question regarding who was older, Pauline or Juliet - it's
not made specifically clear in the film as far as I recall.) Without the
script it would just be an excellent guess about the sweater (it's just a
strip of fabric when we see it in the stitching stage so far as I can see).
At any rate, I've corrected the quiz. And I checked with Miss Waller, she
says everyone gets two points' credit on their scores.
I also added newly corrected info about the "57 Varieties" - turns out
there are five versions of HC (in English anyway) out there. Thanks Bryan
for the tip!
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n149 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Sun Oct 6 09:04:31 1996
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n150
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n150 --------------
001 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: The Quiz
002 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Hideous Postings on the Net
003 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Hey... Jude!
004 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Hey... Jude!
005 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Oz version
006 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Hey... Jude!
007 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Oz version
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n150.1 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The Quiz
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 16:52:00 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, adam abrams wrote:
> I also added newly corrected info about the "57 Varieties" - turns out
> there are five versions of HC (in English anyway) out there. Thanks Bryan
> for the tip!
According to top secret sources in Australia ([kd, sb], as [jp] would put
it), I gather that the Oz video is the same cut as the British release
(+Bill,+tennis,-blood) but is also letterboxed. Yet another version.
I posted something to the list a while ago to say that I had letterboxed
my TV with card to reduce the unmasked, Full-Frame version to its proper
dimensions. Having done this once, mainly for a joke, I find the square
picture completely wrong. Sigh. I shall fly to Oz and pick up the PAL
letterbox, right after I win the Lottery.
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n150.2 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Hideous Postings on the Net
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 12:20:46 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Name: Vinnie Bartilucci
Email: Vinnie
Some of my fellow HEAVENLY CREATURES fans think Melanie Lynskey
(Pauline) would be perfect as Velma! Lynskey's got the right
coloring, build, and intelligent aura about her, and considering
Velma's proficiency with foreign and ancient languages, she
probably wouldn't even have to bother learning to do an American
accent! :-) I also suggest Leonardo DiCaprio as Shaggy (hey, that
boy can play anything!). I like your suggestion of Tim Burton
to direct; of course, knowing Hollywood, they'd probably use
Penelope Spheeris, director of countless (bad!) movies based on
TV series. Zoinks!
More hideousness....check Dejanews for newgroups where people talk
about Kate Winslet.
*Rana borovnia*!
Bao Ly *Americanus borovinus*!
The American toad, B. americanus, burrows about 1 m (3 ft) deep in loose
soil in the fall and hibernates until spring.
Euripides is again the target in The Frogs (405), in which Dionysus goes
to Hades to recover the poet and there becomes involved in a contest
between Aeschylus and Euripides for the throne of tragedy, which the
older dramatist wins.
> cheers
> sb
> ...who is petitioning the International Nomenclature Board for a generic
> change from *Bufo* to *Rana*.
Brek-kek-kek
Brek-kek-kek-kek-kek-kek!
Ko-ax!
Ko-ax!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n150.3 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Hey... Jude!
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:35:31 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Phil inscribed:
>Just back from Jude-the-rather-odd.
I learned last night that it was playing at the Vancouver Film Festival..
in an hour! And here I was still at work. Miraculously, I was able to
polish up my duties and race over to the theatre in the nick of time.
It was rather odd, wasn't it? Kate was her usual radiant self, full of
insouciant sparkle and cheeky charm. But I couldn't fathom some of the
motivation. I guess that's the point, that Sue can't bring herself to "just
love the guy already" (as Kate said in her MTV interview).
> Full frontal nudity
>fans will also not be disappointed. Dear me. Cold compresses and
>smelling salts to be taken along to the cinema by serious KW droolers.
Advice I could have used. I think I may have blacked out, I don't recall
much that happened for about a half hour after that part.
>Adam 'No blood please, I'm Canadian' Abrams be warned: it's maple syrup
>time again. Perhaps Pierre Vinet mixed it up for them, for he was also
>the stills photographer. ('Smile!' - remember)
Er, yes. That wasn't too pleasant, but I guess they wanted to emphasize
childbirth was an especially messy business in the 1880's, with no doctor
about. And I suppose having her give birth to a pillow wouldn't really cut
it here.
Speaking of unintentional and superfluous HC parallels:
- Kate rides a bike (briefly, and with no mishaps)
- There's a b&w sequence at the beginning (not a ship scene though)
- er, that's about all I can come up with.
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n150.4 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Hey... Jude!
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 15:45:05 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
Oh bloody hell! This is all so unfair! You guys are all talking about Jude,
and I haven't even seen the Frighteners yet! I'm emigrating. It's the only
sensible thing to do. I can't take living in this cinematic backwater any
longer!!! But... at least I've seen Bill Bloody Perry play tennis :-)
Shannon
Thou art mine and I am thine,
'Til the sinking of the world.
I am thine and thou art mine,
'Til in ruin death is hurled.
- P.B.S
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n150.5 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Oz version
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:33:08 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hello all,
Still in Melbourne, and unable to check (my charming and generous hosts -
wait till they see the phone bill - while admirably AbFab literate, fail
as whatevers), but I am fairly sure that the Oz HC video release is NOT
letterboxed.
*Rana borovnia*
(thank you International Nomenclature Board)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n150.6 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hey... Jude!
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 00:21:18 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au wrote:
> Oh bloody hell! This is all so unfair! You guys are all talking about Jude,
> and I haven't even seen the Frighteners yet! I'm emigrating. It's the only
> sensible thing to do. I can't take living in this cinematic backwater any
> longer!!! But... at least I've seen Bill Bloody Perry play tennis :-)
Hear, Hear! We B. americanus still haven't seen no blood, nor tennis,
nor even 'bloody' Bill getting in Hilda's drawers, et al... (with the
exception of Brye, Brye + blood = the Holy Grail). I am also terribly
cut up that Phil (the really, silly) had the first enlightment of seeing
Kate Winslet *nekkid*. I didn't realize Jude-the-rather-frustrated came
out so early in the U.K.!??!
*Americanus borovnius*
International Nomenclature Board
(planning to organize a deal for the 5 versions of HC as of tomorrow!)
"Oh, and Happy Birthday to that Winslet's girl," as E. Thompson would
put it.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n150.7 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Oz version
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:46:01 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Sandra Bowdler wrote:
> I am fairly sure that the Oz HC video release is NOT letterboxed.
Cue Hilda: "Oh dear."
I asked [kd]=Kate Douglas, a whatever AND a cricket fan (=very sound
person) about this, and she said it WAS. A mystery. Perhaps there are
two videos. Miramax conspiracy theorists assemble, your time is come.
Perhaps I'm MAD, but I thought I remembered a [sb]=Sandra Bowdler post
which went along the lines of 'Just got my copy of the British video
release; the same as the Oz one, but unmasked'. Maybe Adam had better add
a mailing list quiz to Miss Waller's Fourth World experience.
And there hasn't been a cinema showing in London since August.
And we still haven't had The Frighteners here either.
But we do have Jude. Do we want it, that is the question.
Phil
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n150 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Mon Oct 7 13:11:36 1996
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n151
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n151 --------------
001 - trustno1@ra.isisnet.com ( - Pictures
002 - "Chris Black" <qleap@inte - Re: Hey... Jude!
003 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Kiwispotting
004 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Forgotten Silver
005 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Kiwispotting
006 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - KW article
007 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Lynsky Letter
008 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Kiwispotting
009 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Hideous Postings on the Net
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.1 ---------------
From: trustno1@ra.isisnet.com (Gina)
Subject: Pictures
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:41:15 -0300 (ADT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hello all,
im the idiot who got 14 out of 20. i dont feel worthy :( i also feel like
bashing my pc into the wall. for some damm reason i cant get the 'juliet in
Ilam gardens' pic from brians page to come up. iv tryed like 20 times and it
will not come up. i keep getting some general protection fault junk and then
my net program shuts down and i have to get on again. this is really p*ssing
me off.
can anybody send me the pic snail-mail. i dont care if its a photocopy, bad
print job, or whatever. I JUST WANT IT! speaking of which, does anybody have
the PYP school class photo.
wishing dielo was here to slice my computer in half,
*gina*
"...next time i write in this diary mother will be dead. How odd
yet how pleasing..."
~PYP
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.2 ---------------
From: "Chris Black" <qleap@interl.net>
Subject: Re: Hey... Jude!
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:56:06 +0000
> Hear, Hear! We B. americanus still haven't seen no blood, nor tennis,
> nor even 'bloody' Bill getting in Hilda's drawers, et al... (with the
> exception of Brye, Brye + blood = the Holy Grail). I am also terribly
> cut up that Phil (the really, silly) had the first enlightment of seeing
> Kate Winslet *nekkid*. I didn't realize Jude-the-rather-frustrated came
> out so early in the U.K.!??!
>
If you just can't wait to see Kate 'nekkid' rent 'Fargo'. A nice
preview for 'Jude' was before it. :-)
And just like with 'Fargo' I'll have to wait for 'Jude' to hit the
video shelves before I'm able to see it, unless I'm willing to drive
4 hours to St. Louis or 5 hours to Chicago. *sigh*
--Chris
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.3 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Kiwispotting
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:39:05 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi whatevers
Just had the pleasure of meeting a Kiwi from Christchurch who thinks HC is
a great film and used to "get slaughtered" at the staff club at Ilam with
his teachers. Nice guy. He's come to study at my college (we have a few
NZers here, it *is* the NZ Cambridge college) - physics, like Henry Hulme.
He said that he and his friends thought it was a wonderful film. When I
(very casually) dropped HC into conversation, it was obvious that he was
aware of the film and its impact. That intrigued me. Having lived in
Cambridge for many years, I'm used to seeing the town and University on
film (at various levels of stereotyping) and think nothing of it, but I
guess having a bizarre and tragic murder as a local focus of interest is a
rather different matter. Anyway, excuse my ignorance/enthusiasm, NZ
listers, and congratulate me on spotting a NZ accent when I hear one. Not
a mention of Australia.
He didn't seem at all surprised that I was interested in the film. Or
perhaps it was just the wine at the start of term party? Tennis anyone?
pw
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.4 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Forgotten Silver
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:42:02 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Saw it yesterday at the Mill Valley Film Festival. Thanks to whoever posted
that info here. It rocked. I had my doubts beforehand for some reason. Don't
know how I could *ever* doubt PJ. My favorite moments: Stan the Man smashing
baby with pie, then, almost as an afterthought, pushing carriage down
hill...PJ slashing his way through the vegetation with a machete, looking
for Jerusalem of New Zealand...the whole Soviet funding thing...
BTW, how many of you die-hard Heavenly Creatures fans like the rest of PJ's
stuff? I love it all...though Meet the Feebles isn't as strong...wasn't
there some Canadian guy who said "no blood" -- bet he liked Braindead/Dead
Alive a *lot*...
Ciao
Steven Fammatre
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.5 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Kiwispotting
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 16:29:26 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Phil West wrote:
> congratulate me on spotting a NZ accent when I hear one. Not
> a mention of Australia.
What are you implying, Phil? Personally, I think that there is more of a
similarity between NZ and English accents than between NZ and Australian
ones, so there! :-)
Shannon
'All that lives must die
Passing through Nature to Eternity'
(Yes, it's from Hamlet, but, like Blake, I enjoy capitalising my Nouns - or
anybody else's Nouns, for that matter :-) )
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.6 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: KW article
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:55:41 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Creatures and others,
You're probably sick of my transcripts right about now, but anyhow here
comes another one. THE INDEPEDENT had an article on Kate in the sunday 29
sept 1996 issue:
HEADLINE: Twentysomething, Not yet 21, Kate Winslet is established as
Hollydwood's favourite British actor. She still can't believe her luck.
One sunday afternoon at the end of last winter, a young woman went to a film
- Sense and Sensibility - at the Curzon Mayfair in London. The girl was
studenty-looking, in jeans and a jumper. She bought a single ticket, settled
into her seat, and wept buckets. "I absolutely loved it. I thought, shit,
this is so good." Nobody recognised her, nobody spotted that this was the
girl on the poster outside, the girl who had stolen the reviews from the
rest of the distinguished cast, the girl who had just won a BAFTA and was up
for an Oscar.
Back then, audiences were unsure whether they were watching Kate Winslet in
ringlets or Kate Ringlet in winslets. Six months later, she is established
as Britain's leading young film star. Often these accolades are highly
arguable, but in this case there are no other candidates. The only other
Britons under 35 whom Hollywood would trust with a leading role are Ralph
Fiennes, who is 33, and Julia Ormond, 31. Kate Winslet will be 21 on
saturday. Like many a British actor before her, she has made her name in
period pieces. Her last contemporary role was the girl in the Sugar Puffs
ad. Her next role, in a cinema near you from next weekend, is another
Penguin classic heroine - Sue Bridehead in Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure,
which has been renamed Jude (the notion of obscurity anathema to the movies)
after that, Winslet will be Ophelia in Kenneth Branagh's four-hour, 70mm
Hamlet, which is now finished, but doesn't reach the screen til February. So
far, so British. But the escape route, the way out of the corset, already
beckons. Emma Thompson (years into her career) made a contemporary comedy
with Schwarzenegger, and Helena Bonham-carter (years into hers) made one
with Woody Allen. Kate Winslet, in no time at all, has gone closer to the
tin heart of Hollywood: she is currently in Mexico, playing the female lead
in an action movie, directed by James Cameron, who made the Terminator
films. Admittedly, this too is a period piece: it's about the sinking of the
Titanic. But the point is, it's big: it's Hollywood; the part , an upperclas
girl from Philadelphia, could have gone to Winona, or Alicia or Liv. And it
went to Kate.
The best thing about this meteor thing is that it is propelled by talent,
Winslet is good-looking enough to have been named as one of the 50 most
beautiful people in one of those fatuous lists, but she is far from your
standard stunner: it would be truer to say that her face is capable of
beauty. When I met her in July, she was also giving interviews to two glossy
magazines. Both talked about putting her on the cover: in the event. neither
did. She just doesn't have that sort of look. Talent of course is not enough
on its own. Winslet's first role on the big screen, in the New Zealand film
Heavenly Creatures (1994), was a gift: a character who was a teenager
(heightening emotions), a play-actor (further heightening), and eventually a
murderer (the ultimate high) - a scheaming, screaming nightmare of a person,
and a dream of a part. Then she played Marianne Dashwood: a character who is
not only a character, rounded and lovable, but a representative, an archetyp
of sensibility. Sensibility ! The very thing that actors have; the very
thing they are. So when Winslet says, " I'm just so incredibly lucky, " you
think, you can say that again. And she does. A few minutes later, "I've been
unbelievably lucky". Shortly after that, " I've been incredibly lucky."
Kate sits in a hired room at the Groucho club in Soho. Her outfit is half
girlish, half tomboy: a filmy blakc t-shirt under a black shift dress with a
flowery pattern, rounded off with a pair of well-traveled Doc Marten boots.
Her conversation is much the same: half luvvie, half earthy, with a clear
echo of Emma Thompson who played her big sister on Sense and Sensibility -
off screen, by all accounts, as well as on. The message is clear: I may get
all these period roles but I'm still a modern person.
Asked about Jude which is set in 1895, she immidiately makes a similar
point. "You can well see it happening now, which I think is an important
statement for period films to make - that actually times haven't changed,
people haven't changed, emotions don't change people are still having
problems in and out of love. The only thing that's changed is the way we
dress. Just because society and governments and whatever was different a 100
years ago doesn't mean that people didn't have sex, pick their nose,=
swear.....
But the plot does hinge on society's disapproval of a couple living together
outside marriage. "Well yeah " she says, with a trace of irritation," but it
wasn=F8t uncommon you know. The only thing I suppose that was so explosive
about it was that Hardy wrote about it".
This is mirrored by Michael Winterbottom's film a join effort between his
production company and the BBC. It's an uneven affair, with lapses into
woodenness, but it had many strengths, not least of all the fact that it had
been made at all. If there are any moments of sunlit romance, the ending is
far from a double wedding. There is one event so terrible that Hollywood
would never have countenanced it, except maybe on Elm Street. But thanks to
the present climate - the pulling power of English lit and Winslet - this
unusual, unsparing, feel-bad movie is opening at a broad range across the
country. My guess is that the reviews of Jude will be better than the
returns. But it marks another stage of the brilliant career of Kate Winslet.
It's like what happens to young sportsmen a couple of years in. You can get
so far on natural talent, but there comes a time when you have to learn to
use it. Winslet showed in her first two films that she has all the shots: a
luminous presence, mobile features, a gift for mimicry, a large helping of
charm and an enhancing, almost volcanic sensitivity, which enables her to
register emotions deftly, convincingly and with a childlike intensity. In
this third role, she adds the only thing the package previously lacked;
restraint.
"In what sense "? Winslet asks, with another touch of frost. Well the
performance is more held back, more suggestive ( I say trying not to
flounder). But maybe that's the character. "It's very much the character,
but also I think" - she pauses for the first time - " it's important not to
do everything. It's so powerful in a scene where you just do nothing. That's
something I've learnt, probably because heavenly Creatures was so full on
and I had to absolutely explode in every scene. Whereas Sue (in Jude) has a
lot of stuff that she keeps to herself. And that's something I've really
learnt about through working - my motto for a long time has been: don't act,
be". When a director gives a big part to an actress with only one
performance behind her, it is safe to say, that that performance impressed
him. But the general admiration for Winslet's work in Heavenly Creatures was
not shared by Ang Lee, director of Sense and Sensibility. "I am not convinec
that was such a great performance", he told a reporter."I saw a mad horrific
person". When Winslet read for the part of Marianne -pretending not knowing
that her agent had put her up for the much smaller part of Lucy - Lee was
captivated by her "bald, raw talent". Then he set about teaching her that
less is more, spending more time with her than any other actor. He was only
partly succesful: Marianne brims with passion, and Winslet hurled so much of
herself into the role, that she passed out twice. There is a memorable
moment in Emma Thompson's diary of the shoot when Winslet has to be revived
with a combination of flowers from the producer, four bottles of Newcastle
Brown from the ADs (assistant directors) and the chance to warm her sodden
feet by placing them in the armpits of Greg Wise, whose character , Mr
Willoughby, was the cause of all the trouble. No such stories have seeped
out of the shoot of Jude, or Hamlet. But in person Winslet does her best to
keep up appearances. One of her eyes, which are normally an interesting
blue-green, is blakc with a nasty bruise just on the egde of the iris. "I
was violently sick the other day", she explains. "So violently that I bust a
blood vessel".
Acting is in Winslet's blood, but success is not. Her father is a struggling
actor, and so is her elder sister, who still lives in the family semi in
Reading. "I come from a background of actors who have never ever hardly
worked and always been right on the breadline... my sister has a terrible
time and hardly ever works, and when she does work, they're always kind of
small theatre jobs with little touring companies up North that go from
school hall to school hall". It must be tricky.
"Yes absolutely. It's heartbreaking. It's not that - there's never been any
jealousy on their part. I just wish I could do something for them, but
obviously I can't. I mean there are certain conversations I can have - "Oh
look will you see my sister for this or perhaps you'd consider dad for that"
? and hopefully dad will get something on Titanic because he met Jim cameron
and Jim thinks he is fabulous. It's difficult but what I love about my
family so much is that they never ever have looked on anything that I've
done as glamorous. And as soon as it has got to that level, I've immediately
invited them ino it to experience it with me. Sometimes when you do a
publicity thing over in the states, you're treated like a queen. And it's
important to me, that my parents really see that, and that's why it was so
good having them both at the Oscars". She took them with her ?
"Yeah they both came and they were like kids, they couldn't believe the fun
it was. I'd say to them, go on just go for it, someone else is paying, you
might as well have a laugh, and we really did have a laugh. It was like one
of those supermarket sweep things when you can just go around the shop and
grab everything you want.
Her constant ambition is to be able to erase her parents' financial worries.
"Until I buy them a house I won't feel like I've cracked it". Titanic, in
which she stars opposite Leonardo DiCaprio, will pay more than her four
previous movies put together. The money has brough her own personal
assistant ("it's rediculous I am only 20 and I've got a PA) to go with the
personal trainer supplied by the studio. It won't buy a house for her
family, but it has provided a flat for herself - "a huge place, first and
second floor, in north London," which she has just moved into the week
before we met.
She waxes lyrical about the joy of nesting, of linen from John Lewis and a
bed of her own, from "this brilliant place called the big table". If this
sounds gushy, her choice of flatmates shows that the Doc Martens are still
somewhere near the ground. She is sharing not with a man, or a fellow
actress, but with two backroom girls - a make-up artist and an assistant
director. A star who makes lasting friends among the crew is a star with
sense and some humility. Does she worry that the bubble is gonna burst ?
The torrent slows: her tone softens: "Um - I mean - I don't know that I do
worry. Maybe there will come a point that I will need to worry about it. But
I do worry that what could happen is that old thing that happened to Winona
Ryder, she worked and worked and worked and then stopped because people just
got bored. But to me it's not some sort of career ladder, it's all about the
work, and as long as I carry that mentality with me I should be ok".
I rang Kenneth Branagh's publicist and asked for a comment from Branagh, to
get an actor-director's view of her abilites. When the quote came back, it
was more about her personality: "When I first met Kate, I thought she was
29. After the meeting the casting director told me she was 17. She has a
very old head on young shoulders, which is currently keeping her sane in the
midst of extraordinary success. My first and lasting impression was of
having met a real "natural", a genuine star. I think she'll cope.
One of Winslet's lesser coups is to have got on well with Emma Thompson and
now with Branagh. She speaks warmly of him, in the usual way
("Incredible...amazing..life-enhancing"), but also a more precise point:
"There is nothing canny or clever about Ken. He doesn't play director games,
he never makes you feel stupid". This sounded like an oblique reference to
Ang Lee, who made his cast write essays on their characters, marked them and
famously said to Winslet after her first day's work, " You'll get better".
Winslet didn't have to write an essay on Ophelia, which is a shame because
her take on the character is inimitably Winslettian: "I hope I've made her
strong, I really hope so. If you think about Ophelia, she's this girl who's
never had a strong female presence in her life. And she's in that funny
transition period, going from her teenage years into really becoming a
woman. She's having this pretty full-on relationship with Hamlet, but she
always seems to be suffering. She's the victim of everything, of everybody,
this little floaty thing that's just sort of dancing about. She's hung on to
herself and been terribly lonely. There's her brother whom she loves and
he's buggered off to France to have a lovely life thank you very much. And
her father Polonius - you know, stuffy old git who's trying to keep her
wrapped up in cotton wool - has just been promoted to Prime Minister. And
with her lover Hamlet she's going through this awful time because he doesn't
know what the hell's going on, and seems daft and you know that she's going
to go mad from the minute you see her. So I thought no way, that's been done
before, people are going to get bored. So I just tried to reverse the
situation and give her a purpose.
The end...
Pictures. Large full page black and white shot of Kate looking into the
camera smiling ( a kind of archaic smile ). And a small one with Christopher
Eccleston from Jude ( from the: "Will you give me away" scene).
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
"You should have written vint" Heavenly Creatures
DGIF no #11521
"I was born to speak all mirth and no matter"
William Shakespeare, Much ado about nothing
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.7 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Lynsky Letter
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:32:39 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello,
I was wondering has anybody on this list ever written to Melanie ?
And after I read the interview with Fran and Peter last week posted by Boa
Ly , I was wondering. They talk about having cut out a scene with Juliet and
Pauline standing under the trees watching Bloody Bill Perry and Hilda play
tennis, but after having seen the film numerous time I am pretty convinced
it's in the version I've seen, isn't it the scene were they throw a stone in
the water infront of the doctor ?
Thanks to Boa Ly for posting that interview btw, it was great.
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
"You should have written vint" Heavenly Creatures
DGIF no #11521
"I was born to speak all mirth and no matter"
William Shakespeare, Much ado about nothing
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.8 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Kiwispotting
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 22:23:00 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> What are you implying, Phil? Personally, I think that there is more of a
> similarity between NZ and English accents than between NZ and Australian
> ones, so there! :-)
>
> Shannon
>
ROTFL!!
AS someone who has spent many hours in the UK explaining that I am from
Australia NOT Land of Long White Cloud. I always assume they try that
first because Kiwis foam at the mouth and commit GBH when asked if they're
Australian, whereas we simply reply patiently and slowly when the reverse
occurs. I find it helps also to say I am Kylie's cousin (once removed),
and have guest starred in Prisoner [Cell Block H, or whatever they call
it].
cheers
Rb
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n151.9 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Hideous Postings on the Net
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:10:49 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Bao Ly wrote:
> Name: Vinnie Bartilucci
> Email: Vinnie
>
> Some of my fellow HEAVENLY CREATURES fans think Melanie Lynskey
> (Pauline) would be perfect as Velma!
Who's Velma? What project is this? I mean, naturally I agree that she
would be perfect for it, but that goes without saying.
--Jefferson
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n151 ---------------
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n152
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n152 --------------
001 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Kiwispotting
002 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Heavenly Velma
003 - Paul Laurence Bird <93072 - Velma
004 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re: Velma
005 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Hideous Postings on the Net
006 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Lynsky Letter (KW Article)
007 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Silver & Melanie
008 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - A new competition
009 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Velma
010 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re: Braindead Braindead Braindead
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.1 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Kiwispotting
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 00:28:16 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Sandra Bowdler wrote (after Shannon):
> Kiwis foam at the mouth and commit GBH when asked if they're
> Australian, whereas we simply reply patiently and slowly when the reverse
> occurs.
Spot on, rb. Anything less than the full Paul Hogan/Python "Bruce" sketch
and we Brits like to play it safe. "Oh, are you from New Zealand?" we
inquire politely, nibbling nervously at our egg and salmon sandwich. This
is exactly what I said to my new Kiwi acquaintance the other night.
Fortunately, I was right for once, and did not have to suffer the patient
explanation scenario.
Then again, there's no such thing as a British or English accent either.
The North Americans here reckon I sound like Michael Caine, which I'm sure
is meant to be a compliment, but is completely and hideously wrong!
Best,
Phil
still awaiting borovnian classification
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.2 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Heavenly Velma
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 00:49:57 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Jefferson Morris wrote:
> > Some of my fellow HEAVENLY CREATURES fans think Melanie Lynskey
> > (Pauline) would be perfect as Velma!
>
> Who's Velma? What project is this? I mean, naturally I agree that she
> would be perfect for it, but that goes without saying.
Scooby Dooby Doo, where are you? I haven't heard about this, either, but
it's got to be Scooby Doo if there's another character called Shaggy. Is
someone planning to make a movie out of it? Zoinks indeed.
Mel as Velma? Complete with chunky roll-neck sweaters and huge black
glasses? Wild. Come to think of it, who *would* you cast as Velma? I
rather hope that if Melanie returns to films, it's in a comedy. Her
facial expressions in HC never fail to crack me up. The look on her face
when Juliet barges ahead and puts "The Donkey Serenade" on is priceless.
Poor old Henry. You'd look like that, too, if you'd just sat down on an
egg and salmon sandwich in a hurry.
Phil
"...And I would've got away with it, if it weren't for you pesky kids!"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.3 ---------------
From: Paul Laurence Bird <930727@bud.cc.swin.edu.au>
Subject: Velma
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:58:39 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hiya Jefferson
> > Some of my fellow HEAVENLY CREATURES fans think Melanie Lynskey
> > (Pauline) would be perfect as Velma!
>
> Who's Velma? What project is this? I mean, naturally I agree that she
> would be perfect for it, but that goes without saying.
>
> --Jefferson
I don't know anything about that particular project, but Velma is one of
the characters in the original Scooby Doo cartoon series. She was the
bespectacled plain jane who was the brains of the group. All of us
20-something slackers grew up with these Hanna Barbera greats :)
If Melanie was to play her, I hope there would be a romantic lead for
her, though. Notice how Fred always arranged searches so he got to be
alone with the beautiful but vacous Daphne? Not that Fred was such a
catch anyway...<grin>...like his traps *ever* worked!
How about Peter Jackson to direct a Scooby Doo movie? Humourous horror
is his forte!
Cheers all, (get back to the serious discussions now, and the
unintellectual illiterates like me will do their darnedest to keep up!)
Paul Bird
930727@swin.edu.au
Atheist having an orgasm: "Oh Random! Oh Chance!!"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.4 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Velma
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 18:33:47 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Not to digress even further from HC, but there's one little problem with the
Scooby theory. Daphne epitomized the beautiful, vacuous (to use Paul's
phrasing) Daphne, while the smarter Velma was basically unattractive. (This
is really sexist, but that's another e-discussion). I think we all see how
Melanie fails to fit the character here. I think Melanie would steal
Daphne's thunder...Come to think of it, Kate W wouldn't be bad as Daphne...
Ciao
Steven Fammatre
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.5 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hideous Postings on the Net
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 20:17:07 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jefferson F. Morris wrote:
> Who's Velma? What project is this? I mean, naturally I agree that she
> would be perfect for it, but that goes without saying.
I thought the connection was rather obvious - but nevertheless, most
hideous! There are rumors of making the classic animated TV series
'Scooby-Doo' into a feature film...and I guess a lot people are having
fun with the casting, a bit too much....
And I quote: If this isn't a project destined for talent like Brad Pitt,
Julia Roberts, Ricki Lake, Crispin Glover and 40 high-end Silicon
Graphics workstations, we don't know what is. Studio developers, take
note.
Another Scooby fan feels that Janeane Garofalo should play Velma (ok, we
can see that) and Stephen Baldwin should sport a tuft of hair on his
chin for the role of Shaggy (on that, we feel a bit uncomfortable.)
http://www.islandnet.com/~corona/films/details/scooby-doo.html
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.6 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lynsky Letter (KW Article)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 20:45:57 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tine Nielsen wrote:
> I was wondering has anybody on this list ever written to Melanie ?
You mean anyone beside Bryan "Melanie Lynskey R00lz!!!" Woodworth? ??
There just happened to a letter from Mel to Brye in the Melanie Lynskey
Info Center in case anyone had missed it!!! Rest assure, I have not
tried to contact Mel and asked her what she think of the "Scooby-Doo"
project... but I do wonder if anyone else have written to her beside
Bryan Woodworth.
P.S. Apparently, John Argentiero had credited me for The Independent
article you've posted here earlier today on his KW Homepage! (Not my
doings)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.7 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Silver & Melanie
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 03:11:26 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi creatures, Adam here...
>From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
>Subject: Forgotten Silver
>Saw it yesterday at the Mill Valley Film Festival. Thanks to whoever posted
>that info here. It rocked.
It's finally arriving in Vancouver! Wed. October 9, 7pm and Friday Oct 11,
2:30 pm, Caprice Theatre, as part of the Vancouver Film Festival. Hey,
anyone who can make it to the Friday show is welcome to join me!
>I love it all...though Meet the Feebles isn't as strong...wasn't
>there some Canadian guy who said "no blood" -- bet he liked Braindead/Dead
>Alive a *lot*...
Hey, I'm that (Canadian) guy! Well, you know what pacifists us Canucks are.
Actually I found Meet the Feebles gross but enjoyable (in a twisted way!), and
one of these days soon, I'm going to take a look at Braindead/DeadAlive.
Really. Viewed through my fingers perhaps...
>From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
>I was wondering has anybody on this list ever written to Melanie ?
Well, of course there's Brian Woodworth's letter, and Mel's wonderful
response, all immortalized on his page. A confession: I dashed off a
letter of my own to her earlier this summer, partly inspired by Brian's
experience. Never did hear back from her though, alas. Ah, well. Not all of
us are blessed with such Heavenly good fortune!
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.8 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: A new competition
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:29:15 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
OK all,
Now I have some Rossini operas to get rid of; not very well known ones
admittedly, but still good: Armida (Scimone) and Mose (Sawallisch), and
very good casts.
This time, I want some ideas for casting Heavenly Creatures: the opera.
Unfortunately it will have to have modern music (unless it becomes a
Handel pasticcio - hm, another competition), and should ideally be sung by
native English speakers. Here are the principals:
Pauline - soprano
Juliet - mezzo-soprano
Honora - soprano
Bert - tenor
Hilda - contralto
Henry - counter-tenor
Bill - bass
The rules are again to be made up as I go along. Here's one: any one
mentioning Kiri Te Kanawa will be immediately disqualified. That also
applies to Della Jones and Emma Kirkby.
Entries may be sent to me privately or to the list.
Rana borovnia
S'una madre infelice tu non assisti, o cielo!
(Ottone)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.9 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Velma
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:14:02 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Paul Laurence Bird wrote:
> I don't know anything about that particular project, but Velma is one of
> the characters in the original Scooby Doo cartoon series. She was the
> bespectacled plain jane who was the brains of the group. All of us
> 20-something slackers grew up with these Hanna Barbera greats :)
Ah...that Velma.
I never cared for Scooby Doo as a kid. Which means that for me the show
doesn't have that patina of childhood nostalgia which tends to blind people to
the fact that...Never mind. Don't get me started on Hanna-Barbera.
That said, I suppose a film project could be redeemed by Ms. Lynskey's
luminous presence. But who wants her to have to "redeem" the films she's
in? Plus we wouldn't want her to get typecast playing lesbians. Let's just
keep saying our prayers at night, and wishing for the right script to
come her way.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n152.10 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Braindead Braindead Braindead
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:54:33 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Adam wrote:
> Hey, I'm that (Canadian) guy! Well, you know what pacifists us Canucks are.
> Actually I found Meet the Feebles gross but enjoyable (in a twisted way!), and
> one of these days soon, I'm going to take a look at Braindead/DeadAlive.
> Really. Viewed through my fingers perhaps...
Needless to say (then why am I saying it?), get the Unrated version of
Braindead if you can.
There seem to be several versions. The US rated version, which is *12
minutes* shorter, rendering the climax completely incomprehensible (not that
plot continuity is a must for this). *Avoid at all costs*. Then there's the
US unrated version, which I've seen a dozen times. It rules. This summer,
while at a Fangoria convention in Los Angeles, I was suprised to learn Peter
Jackson and Jeffrey Combs (FBI agent in Frighteners, and of course, Herbert
West, Re-animator) were there to present clips from Frighteners (including
some not in the movie) and talk, and sign stuff. One of the bootleg
retailers was selling an (almost official-looking) copy of the Ultra Unrated
NZ Braindead, with seven extra minutes. Natch, I picked this up, and had PJ
sign it! ("Bloody good wishes") I was slightly worried he'd be irritiated
that it was a bootleg, but either he didn't notice or (likely) didn't care.
It was awesome, and though I haven't watched the entire video, it seems like
there's nothing major extra, though I'm hoping for more gore in the end.
Anyway, in conclusion: get the UNRATED version of Braindead/Dead Alive, OK?
Ciao
Steven Fammatre
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n152 ---------------
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n153 --------------
001 - Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n152
002 - trustno1@ra.isisnet.com ( -
003 - Nancy Marth <nmarth@spati - Re: A new competition
004 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re:
005 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Screenplay
006 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: your mail
007 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Oz version
008 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Screenplay
009 - Donald Chin <donaldc@nets - melbourne showing of hc!
010 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n152
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.1 ---------------
From: Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au (Karen M Douglas)
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n152
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:20:12 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well....good morning to all you heavenly creatures,
I'm new to this, so you can all have a laugh at me if you like, and I've
only just seen this exquisite film too, so I'm a bit behind the times....
I was just discussing with my sister the other day, how the school uniforms
that Pauline and Juliet wore, were exactly (well almost) like the ones we
were forced to wear in junior high-school.
It would seem that the Catholic School system in the southern hemisphere
has come a long way in the past 30 years or so....
Also, I just have a question, and please forgive me if you've already gone
over this, but I'm still a bit confused about who actually "experienced"
the fourth world. Did Juliet actually see it, and Pauline went along
(influenced by her friend), or perhaps are we mean't to think that there
was some kind of "supernatural" experience going on there? I'd be really
interested to see what some of you think...
Sorry if I've crashed your party here...
Karen Douglas.
-x-
"There are no problems, only poorly defined opportunities"
_____________________________________
Karen Douglas
Department of Psychology
Australian National University
Canberra ACT 0200
Australia
Ph. +61-6-2495043
Fax. +61-6-2490499
E-mail. Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au
_____________________________________
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.2 ---------------
From: trustno1@ra.isisnet.com (Gina)
Subject:
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:15:55 -0300 (ADT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hello all,
got my screenplay today from Pam :) wondering if anyone would happen to
have a colour copy of the 2 drawings in the scenario mag. i ordered one but
it has never come. i called and they said they dident have anymore *sob*,
but for some reason my check was still cashed AUG 8. still no reply to my
call. i want my 20$ back!! they said that they would send the money, 2 weeks
later NO MONEY :(
celeste
I HATE SCENARIO!
I HATE SCENARIO!
I HATE SCENARIO!
I HATE
SCENARIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! etc,!
"...next time i write in this diary mother will be dead. How odd
yet how pleasing..."
~PYP
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.3 ---------------
From: Nancy Marth <nmarth@spatial.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: A new competition
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:25:25 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>The rules are again to be made up as I go along. Here's one: any one
>mentioning Kiri Te Kanawa will be immediately disqualified. That also
>applies to Della Jones and Emma Kirkby.
Hmm, I knew that name sounded familiar (aside from opera of which I know
practically nothing about but am learning). I checked out a book a month
ago from our campus library called "Land of the Long White Cloud: Maori
Myths, Tales and Legends" by none other than Dame Kiri Te Kanawa.
Illustrations are by Michael Foreman.
It's a great little collection of stories for those interested in the Maori
(of which I was pronouncing wrong when a Kiwi acquaintance corrected me:
it's 'Mau-ri' not 'May-or-i') and how places got their particular names.
Nancy
...who will be 'setting aside' (blowing off) her homework tonight for yet
another viewing of HC on the VCR.
=========================================================
Nancy Marth
Dept. of Spatial Information Science and Engineering
National Center for Geographic Information and Analysis
University of Maine
250 Boardman Hall
Orono, Maine 04469
Ph: 207-581-2135
http://www.spatial.maine.edu/studentbios/marth/marth.html
=========================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.4 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 22:02:56 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello all,
Would anyone be willing to perhaps photocopy the screenplay? I'll send
postage and whatever other costs are incurred.
I am another unlucky one who missed the isuue.
yours,
Michael
"I'm not insane...I'm a sane man fighting for his soul!!!"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.5 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Screenplay
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:35:41 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Michael Pellas wrote:
> Would anyone be willing to perhaps photocopy the screenplay? I'll send
> postage and whatever other costs are incurred.
Certainly... email me and we'll organise something.
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.6 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:55:15 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Gina wrote:
> wondering if anyone would happen to
> have a colour copy of the 2 drawings in the scenario mag.
Sure... but I can't imagine what you would want with them... they're pretty
average, to be honest (and they look nothing at all like P&J). Oh yeah... do
you mean the ones of P&J, or those quirky little cartoon things of PJ and
FW? Either way, if you really want them, maybe I could send copies of
mine. If you are interested, mail me.
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.7 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Oz version
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:27:02 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Phil West wrote:
>
> Perhaps I'm MAD, but I thought I remembered a [sb]=Sandra Bowdler post
> which went along the lines of 'Just got my copy of the British video
> release; the same as the Oz one, but unmasked'. Maybe Adam had better add
> a mailing list quiz to Miss Waller's Fourth World experience.
I don't remember quite what I actually said, but the British one is the
same as the Oz one as far as I can tell, both unmasked. I think the "but"
may have been intended to contrast it with the cinema version, not the Oz
video version.
cheers
Rb
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.8 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Screenplay
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:35:50 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I seem to recall some suggestion of putting the screenplay on the web - is
that a goer at all? It would be a very useful resource.
cheers
*Rana borovnia*
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.9 ---------------
From: Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
Subject: melbourne showing of hc!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:37:51 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hi all,
just a reminder...
list members in driving range of melbourne should mark this coming friday
night off in their diaries - the astor in prahran will be screening
heavenly creatures as the second of a double bill.
regards, donald
--
Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
"Lost somewhere in Australia...
and fanatical about Heavenly Creatures and Jane Austen!"
<http://netspace.net.au/~donaldc>
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n153.10 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n152
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:00:32 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Karen,
I wouldn't worry too much about crashing the party - I'd say there were
quite a few different parties going on around here, which occasionally get
together on points of common interest.
Fourth world: I'd say the view taken in the film is that this was an idea
of Juliet's, which Pauline was somehow inducted into at Port Levy; that
it was a shared fantasy which is presented in a slightly
deliberately cheesy way by Jackson which undercuts any supernatural
interpretation. In real life, if you plough through the FAQ you can find
the views of the learned (?) Dr Medlicott, whom someone obviously once
told about this Austrian guy called Sigmund Freud, and if you read the
Glamuzina & Laurie book (see FAQ) there is a Maori interpretation that
they think add a 'spiritual element'. And that's just for starters.
Well, help youself to a bolly stolly and settle back.
cheers
*Rana borovnia*
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n153 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Wed Oct 9 19:20:41 1996
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n154
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n154 --------------
001 - Wingnut <thaivo@ea.oac.uc - Re: Screenplay
002 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Frighteners Special Edition Disc
003 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: KW article
004 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Life in a Fourth World countries
005 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: your mail
006 - Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au - to sandra...
007 - Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au - ps...
008 - yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu - The Fourth World
009 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: The Fourth World
010 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Arena article: 'Kiss Me Kate'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.1 ---------------
From: Wingnut <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Screenplay
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> I seem to recall some suggestion of putting the screenplay on the web - is
> that a goer at all? It would be a very useful resource.
There's a segment of the script on the ML site, most of it's not a
direct transcription, but the last few scenes come directly from the
script.
-Thai
----------------------------
"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..
It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow
you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~
Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)
---------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.2 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Frighteners Special Edition Disc
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Just hit MCA/Universal home video's web site, and they've announced a
Special Signature Edition laserdisc of 'The Frighteners.' Looks to be
just in the planning stages right now. It'll be letterboxed at 2.35,
obviously, with some kind of supplemment. No street date yet.
This is cool, although I can think of another Peter Jackson film I'd
rather see in a Special Edition. But of course that's not up to
MCA/Universal. I think I'll drop Criterion some e-mail today and bug
them. I mean, if they can finally release 'Brazil,' anything must be
possible.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.3 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: KW article
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:18:27 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tine Nielsen wrote:
> You're probably sick of my transcripts right about now, but anyhow here
> comes another one. THE INDEPEDENT had an article on Kate in the sunday 29
> sept 1996 issue:
Bite your tongue. The day I get sick of KW-related material is the day
you can start looking for the body snatcher pods in my backyard.
I felt the need to comment on a few things in this article:
> Six months later, she is established
> as Britain's leading young film star.
You can always pick the winners at the starting gate.
> Her last contemporary role was the girl in the Sugar Puffs ad.
Okay, I really really want to see this ad now. It should definitely be
included in the supplement to Criterion's HC disc.
> Winslet will be Ophelia in Kenneth Branagh's four-hour, 70mm
> Hamlet, which is now finished, but doesn't reach the screen til February.
Aarrgh! I thought it was being released on Christmas Day. Maybe they
mean the wide release won't be 'til February. Anyone have any word on this?
> The best thing about this meteor thing is that it is propelled by talent,
> Winslet is good-looking enough to have been named as one of the 50 most
> beautiful people in one of those fatuous lists, but she is far from your
> standard stunner: it would be truer to say that her face is capable of
> beauty.
And Carl Lewis is capable of winning gold medals. And Martin Scorsese is
capable of directing a movie. And Mahler was capable of...
> But the general admiration for her performance in Heavenly Creatures is
> not shared by Ang Lee, director of Sense and Sensibility. "I am not convinec
> that was such a great performance", he told a reporter."I saw a mad horrific
> person".
This is one of many rather odd statements I've heard from Mr. Lee. I
mean, he made a wonderful movie, God Bless him...but sometimes I wonder
exactly how. It's a bit mysterious.
Alright, I'm bitching. To me, anyone who qualifies their praise of KW
(like Mr. Lee or the guy doing this interview) comes off as a weirdo.
> "There is nothing canny or clever about Ken. He doesn't play director games,
> he never makes you feel stupid". This sounded like an oblique reference to
> Ang Lee, who made his cast write essays on their characters, marked them and
> famously said to Winslet after her first day's work, "You'll get better."
Maybe it's like a Billy Wilder/Audrey Hepburn thing. Love/hate. I don't
know.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.4 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Life in a Fourth World countries
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:52:27 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Karen M Douglas wrote:
> Also, I just have a question, and please forgive me if you've already gone
> over this, but I'm still a bit confused about who actually "experienced"
> the fourth world.
I think the general consensus is that it's a deliberate shared fantasy
(not a hallucination) which Jackson chooses to visualize directly. If it's
from anyone's point of view it's from Pauline's, since we don't see the 4th
world until she does. We see what she chooses to interpret the 4th world as.
>From Juliet's point of view, it might have looked pretty different.
To get foolishly ultra-hypothetical for a moment, when Juliet points and
says, "Look!" and Paul "sees" unicorns, Juliet might have been "seeing"
something else. What, I don't know.
> Sorry if I've crashed your party here...
Your invitation must've gotten lost in the mail. Welcome aboard.
--Jefferson
_________________________________________________________________
"If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, GET
OUT OF BED AND GO INTO THE KITCHEN AND FIX YOURSELF A SNACK."
--Mark A. Peterson, 'Steps In Overcoming Masturbation'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.5 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:01:30 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Gina wrote:
> hello all,
> got my screenplay today from Pam :) wondering if anyone would happen to
> have a colour copy of the 2 drawings in the scenario mag.
I might could scan it for you, but you might want to check Bryan's
HeavenlyWeb page. There may be some scans already up there.
--Jefferson
_________________________________________________________________
"If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, GET
OUT OF BED AND GO INTO THE KITCHEN AND FIX YOURSELF A SNACK."
--Mark A. Peterson, 'Steps In Overcoming Masturbation'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.6 ---------------
From: Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au (Karen M Douglas)
Subject: to sandra...
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:12:18 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Fourth world: I'd say the view taken in the film is that this was an idea
>of Juliet's, which Pauline was somehow inducted into at Port Levy; that
>it was a shared fantasy which is presented in a slightly
>deliberately cheesy way by Jackson which undercuts any supernatural
>interpretation. In real life, if you plough through the FAQ you can find
>the views of the learned (?) Dr Medlicott, whom someone obviously once
>told about this Austrian guy called Sigmund Freud, and if you read the
>Glamuzina & Laurie book (see FAQ) there is a Maori interpretation that
>they think add a 'spiritual element'. And that's just for starters.
hmmmmm...thanks sandra. you know, i never thought there were so many
theories on this. i think i'd probably have to agree with the first option
though. i think it was probably a simple case (well perhaps not that
simple) of influence. you are right though...the film did present it as a
kind of "shared hallucination" phenomenon. i just thought that was
interesting from a psychological point of view i suppose....
it's funny though, becuase pauline did write about it in her diaries, so
she must have either seen it, or believed that she did....in a diary (which
is reserved for personal thoughts and experiences), one would rarely write
about another person's fantasies....
what do you think?
-x-
"There are no problems, only poorly defined opportunities"
_____________________________________
Karen Douglas
Department of Psychology
Australian National University
Canberra ACT 0200
Australia
Ph. +61-6-2495043
Fax. +61-6-2490499
E-mail. Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au
_____________________________________
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.7 ---------------
From: Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au (Karen M Douglas)
Subject: ps...
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:13:34 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
ps - thanks for the bolly stolly...:)
-x-
"There are no problems, only poorly defined opportunities"
_____________________________________
Karen Douglas
Department of Psychology
Australian National University
Canberra ACT 0200
Australia
Ph. +61-6-2495043
Fax. +61-6-2490499
E-mail. Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au
_____________________________________
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.8 ---------------
From: yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu
Subject: The Fourth World
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:46:53 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Karen,
Welcoe to the list! When I first saw the movie I thought Juliet
and Pauline had a folie a deux; But that can't be right, because then they
would have just had the same delusions, not hallucinations, right?
Yani
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.9 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: The Fourth World
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:57:28 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996 yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu wrote:
> Karen,
> Welcoe to the list! When I first saw the movie I thought Juliet
> and Pauline had a folie a deux; But that can't be right, because then they
> would have just had the same delusions, not hallucinations, right?
The folie a' deux is the supposedly professional psychiatric Medlicott
view (see FAQ). A friend of mine who is a child psychiatrist said he
thought mad Medlicott's diagnosis was not essentially incorrect, but
different words would be used nowadays. Myself, it reminds me of a
comment of Kingsley Amis's, that nowadays people think that if you name
something you somehow explain it: "Oh look Mummy that man's floating in
mid air, how can he do that?" "That's called levitation dear" "Oh, I
see".
cheers
Rana borovnia
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n154.10 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Arena article: 'Kiss Me Kate'
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 18:54:24 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Simon Mills, Arena, No 62, Oct. 1996 p. 122
Kiss Me Kate=20
A murderess in =91Heavenly Creatures=92 and Oscar-nominated for =91Sense =
and
Sensibility,=92 is Kate Winslet heading for the big time?
WHEN SHE WAS a little girl, Kate Winslett used to get up very early in
the morning. From the age of three she would rise at 5am and quietly
tramp down the stairs of her parents' modest terraced house in Reading,
turn on the radio or maybe breakfast TV at a low volume and make herself
something to eat, relishing the clandestine solitude of the new morning.
Right up to her teens, when any normal teenager would be going out until
dawn, raving away in some sticky-floored warehouse, young Kate would put
the early hours to more introspective, less gregarious use. "I've always
loved getting up early There's a certain... secrecy I like about it,"
she decides.
She's still a morning person. Indeed, Kate Winslet is the only
actress this reporter has ever interviewed at 7.30am. As we travel to
Shepperton Studios in the back of a car, I'm bleary-eyed, slowly warming
up like an old telly, while she's bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, a chatty
whippersnapper rolling her own stogies.
She'd be good on Radio 4's dust A Minute, would Kate. Once she starts
talking there is no stopping her. Digression can't interrupt her
breathless flow of anecdotes and stories. And while she might speak
fluent luvvie half the time, bless her, it would certainly take a harder
man than I not to be captivated by her.
As she settles in to the construction of her first Rizla job of the
day, she pulls her bare feet up on to the seat so she can sit cross
envelope of auld fella's tobacco nestling in the lap of her dungaree
shorts, gushing away at will. And like an apprentice Em (Thompson) she
mixes toilet humour with trauma, stories of her bowels and bladder with
pass-notes deconstructions of the modern classics she's been filming.
Kate will turn 21 in a few weeks time, but coming to the official end of
her youth won't bother her at all. In fact, she's rather looking forward
to it.
There was no =91My Guy or Just Seventeen=92 for Kate. No =91Top Of T=
he
Pops=92 or MTV. During her adolescence she was always more interested in
books than television. "The funny thing is I've always felt a lot older
than my years," she says. "I actually like getting older. Every time I
have a birthday and I get to be another year older, I think 'Ooh yes,
that feels a bit better. This jacket fits a little more snugly now."'
Accordingly, for somebody who feels old she also feels rather fatigued.
Two years of virtual non-stop work has taken its toll on her. First
=91Heavenly Creatures,=92 then on to =91Sense And Sensibility=92 (with al=
l its
related awards ceremonies), hardly a break before dude (Michael
Winterbottom's adaptation of Thomas Hardy's novel =91Jude The Obscure=92)=
,
Ken Branagh's =91Hamlet=92 after that and now James Cameron's new version=
of
=91Titanic=92. But then you would feel world-weary if your life was as
intense as young Kate's.
She deals only with light and shade, exuberance or exasperation,
triumph or tragedy There is no room for moderation in her world. "Just
the best thing ever" is used frequently "Fuck off", when, "No, thank you
very much" would have sufficed. Talking to her one is reminded of a
flashback scene in =91Annie Hall=92 when Annie is looking back at a few o=
f
her partners before Woody Allen's Alvy showed up. One, a particularly
earnest thesp, tells young Annie, "When I die I want to be torn apart by
wild animals." "Eaten alive by squirrels," counters Alvy.
"Do you know...?" says Kate at one point, "I am only 20 years old
but if I think about all the things I've done, all the places I've been,
all the people I've met, the emotions I've experienced and the journeys
I've been on, I could probably write my autobiography right now." There
then follows a rather pregnant pause as she reconsiders. "But I wouldn't
do it," she sighs. "Because if I did, I'd get called a pretentious bitch
from hell, wouldn't I?"
ACCORDING TO KATE, the Winslet household was a model of stability. Her
actor dad, Roger, her mum, Sally, and her two sisters and brother grew
up in a terraced house on a main road in Reading. "My family are the
kind of people who when they say, 'God, you're really getting on my
nerves,' they actually mean, 'Oh, God, I love you so much,"' says Kate.
"The other day one of my friends told me that she had never told her dad
that she loved him. I cried and cried when I heard that -- it was just
so alien to me."
Overweight as a child ("I was fat," she says. "Very fat..."), Kate
suffered from a lack of confidence which compacted her intense attitude.
She distanced herself from her school friends and became rather
self-centred. "Well, very within myself would be more accurate," she
says. Even her school nativity play made a profound impression on her.
"Being cast as the Virgin Mary was my first acting buzz, if you like. I
was only five years old but I took it very, very seriously I remember
really, really being Mary. Really, really feeling it," she says, not a
trace of irony in her tone, the skin of her pretty, round face taut at
the memory. "I was absolutely thrilled to be involved and I knew then
that I wanted to be an actress."
Acknowledging her desire to tread the boards, her parents bundled
young Kate off to Redroofs theatre school in Maidenhead. She never
settled, though. "It was a bit too 'singy and dancey' for me," she says.
Instead, she buckled down to her GCSEs, passed with flying colours and
supplemented her pocket money with odd jobs like an appearance in a
Sugar Puffs commercial. Eight days after she left Redroofs, she landed a
part in a TV sitcom, =91Get Back.=92
Her first film was the well-received, arty =91Heavenly Creatures=92 =
in
1994. Suitably hysterical and intense, it was the perfect springboard
for Winslet's career, but it was her valuable contribution to Austen
fever that found her winning the hearts of cinema-goers around the
world. Despite describing herself as "fairly bookish", Kate had never
heard of =91Sense And Sensibility=92 nor, indeed, come across its author,
Jane Austen when -- aged only 18 -- she was offered the role as the
impetuous Marianne Dashwood alongside Hugh Grant, Alan Rickman and Emma
Thompson.
Kate cried when she got the part. She cried virtually every day
while on set, as well. Cried too when she was nominated for the Oscar
for best actress for her role. However, she cried even more profusely
when the production wrapped. "I had the best time making that film. An
absolute ball," she says. "I just didn't want it to end." Much to the
delight of director Ang Lee, Winslet and Emma Thompson, cast as the
Dashwood sisters on screen, bonded like real sisters off it.
Although there was some 15 years difference in their ages, it's
easy to see why Kate and Em hit it off big-time. Both share the same
self-deprecating tendencies, coarse sense of humour, a propensity for
four-letter words and emotionally charged outbursts. Perhaps more
poignantly, during the filming of =91Sense And Sensibility,=92 both women
were having rather pronounced man trouble. Thompson had parted company
with Kenneth Branagh and was watching the minutiae of their relationship
being plastered all over the tabloids. Winslet, meanwhile, had also
split with her partner. Recently engaged to her boyfriend, she had lived
through the horror of a subsequent discovery that he was suffering from
cancer. They broke off the engagement the day he started his
chemotherapy Perhaps fortunately, Kate's star was still in the early
stages of ascendancy and the papers never got hold of the story. They
made up for it by splashing her brief but fierce affair with actor Rufus
Sewell all over their pages -- "Sewell's Jewel" The Sun called her. She
is currently single.
Winslet had no such sisterly security to fall back on when she made
her latest offering, =91Jude=92. Although Thomas Hardy and Jane Austen mi=
ght
share shelf-space in many living rooms, there are few similarities in
the styles of either author and the director's alarmingly bleak approach
addresses this. Where =91Sense And Sensibility=92 was frothy and charming=
, a
definitive exercise in costume drama, =91Jude=92 is harsh and cruel. A co=
ld
but stirring film, =91Jude=92 focuses on the tribulations of its central
characters, Sue Bridehead -- played by Winslet -- and Jude Fawley --
brilliantly portrayed by Christopher Eccleston, last seen in =91Shallow
Grave=92 and =91Our Friends In The North.=92 Jude takes little time out t=
o
seduce its audience with rolling hills and vales or bustles and
breeches. Similarly, the language is un-starchy, un-flowery, pure
estuary. Close your eyes and you could be listening to a contemporary
drama. The photography is stunning, the acting superb and the ending
brutally unhappy The Americans are going to hate it.
Justifiably Winslet is particularly proud of the film, but Hardy's
bitter tale of Jude and his ill-fated love affairs was bound to have a
big effect on her. "I would go home at the end of a day's filming
feeling like shit. I would have to unload so much crappy emotion
otherwise I wouldn't be able to sleep. The fact that I was on my own for
long periods of time also meant that all the paranoia that I always have
on a film was exaggerated. You know: I'm crap, I can't act, I'm fat. I
had to sit down and really think, 'How can I turn all this to my
advantage?"' She wasn't too enamoured by Sue Bridehead (confused,
frightened, manipulative) either. "I read the book and thought, this
girl really pisses me off."
Before filming started, the actors had to prepare by watching
=91Three Colours: Blue,=92 "because of the bizarre manifestations of
emotions that you experience when you are bereaving" and Truffaut's
=91Jules Et Jim,=92 "because of that bizarre love triangle". But nothing
could prepare Winslet for her first nude performances.
The two most startling scenes in the film (aside from the traumatic
ending) both find Winslet naked. Firstly the clumsy fumblings of a girl
experiencing sexual intercourse for the first time ("When I first read
the script I thought it was the best sex scene, ever," she says. "You
know, really unerotic and awkward.") Then later on, a woman encountering
childbirth, blood pouring from between her legs, screams caterwauling
from the depths of her lungs. The latter was Winslet's favourite.
"I had to be fitted with this prosthetic, which was wonderful," she
says, grinning broadly. "God, I loved being fitted for it. I had to have
this cast around my tummy and vagina area, so what they did was put
cream all over so that it didn't stick. I had these three gorgeous men
smearing Nivea all over my bottom, all over my tummy. All over... well,
everywhere." The shot was a one-off, with no opportunity for a second
attempt. Moments before the take, Kate ordered a cappuccino. "Two
minutes later, 'Oh, shit, I need a wee, which I can't have, of course.'
Five hours later, I looked down and my stomach actually looked like it
was pregnant because it was so full of piss."
Things went from bad to worse during the virtual birth. In order to
achieve that authentic labour pain rasp in her screams, Kate had
borrowed some childbirth videos from the BBC's library. She practiced
her screams long and hard so that the wailing that followed on set was
real scary Hammer horror stuff. "When we started filming I was screaming
myself absolutely hoarse. Then I suddenly remembered I was going to The
Golden Globe awards that evening. I thought to myself, 'Shit, I hope I
don't win the bloody thing' because I'd lost my voice and wouldn't be
able to give a speech." Miss Dashwood, really.
Her excretory system took a further battering when she landed the
role of Ophelia in Kenneth Branagh's version of =91Hamlet.=92 "My agent j=
ust
called me up and said, 'Darling, Ophelia.' I said, 'What the fuck are
you on about?' He just said, 'Ophelia, darling. Ophelia."' She called
Ken later that day. "I was so stressed out. I said, 'Thanks very much,
I'm really constipated now."' Her jocularity was followed swiftly by
despair. "I became hysterical. I told Ken Branagh that I couldn't do it.
He said, 'Why on earth not?' Because it was Shakespeare, because it was
Ken Branagh. He said, 'Shut up you silly cow. Of course you can do it.'
He explained to me that Shakespeare was a foreign language, but once you
mastered it, it became completely natural. Ken Branagh can actually
speak fluent Shakespeare, you know. He knows how to make it sound real
and alive. It's amazing."
Her next concern is =91Titanic=92, where she'll star alongside Leona=
rdo
di Caprio ("which is the best news ever") in a James Cameron film which
promises to merge the charm and drama of the original 1953 disaster epic
with the hifalutin razzle-dazzle of Cameron's =91The Abyss=92 and
=91Terminator 2=92. But before shooting starts, Britain's finest young
actress needs urgent schooling in a basic human skill. Relaxation. "I
have to be doing something," she says. "Constantly. I have to have
everything organised and constantly moving along. At the moment I'm
trying to teach myself how to relax... usually by reading a copy of
=91Hello!=92 on the loo."
Winslet had a plan last year. During the summer of 1996 she was
going to kick back for a while. She was going to go on holiday or,
failing that, buy some stuff for her new flat. Instead she went from one
job to the next, from one round of publicity junkets to another, and her
plan never came to fruition. But she can dream. "At some stage I'm going
to have to say, 'Right, that's it. I'm stopping for a bit now.' I'm
going to go off on my own for a bit. Maybe spend a few months in Spain,"
she says, smiling at the thought of leaving the thespian loop for a
while. "You know, travel economy, that kind of thing"=20
=91Jude=92 is released on October 4
Photo: Close-up of Kate -- Story, Simon Mills; Photography, Jake
Chessum; assisted by Richard Okon and Lee Ford; Fashion, Tamara Fulton;
Assisted by Gilly Bhogal; Hair, Gari Gianasi using Aveda products at
Streeters; Make-up Emma Kotch using Aveda products at Streeters.
Photo: Kate with long, red curly hair [sign in background reads =91Kate
Winslet=92]
Photo: Kate unloading luggage on a side of a bus -- "There is no room
for moderation in her world. "Just the best thing ever" is used
frequently. "Fuck off", when "No thanks very much" would suffice"
Photo: Kate putting on mascara -- "The tabloids splashed her brief but
fierce affair with actor Rufus Sewell all over their pages -- 'The Sun'
called her "Sewell's Jewel""
Photo: Kate in a rather nice, red dress -- "I had to be fitted with a
prosthetic, which was wonderful. I had these three gorgeous men smearing
Nivea all over my bottom, all over my tummy. All over... well
everywhere"
[note: this article have too many damn italicized words - for better
read on the article, check out John Argentiero's page for an italicized
version of the article, including the pictures mentioned above.]
_____________________________
Ab *Americanus borovnius*
International Nomenclature Board
Now accepting 'Borovnian' classifications!=20
Soon to be introduced - the Borovnian Nomenclature System (Ko-ax!)
_________________________________________
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n154 ---------------
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n155 --------------
001 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Sight and Sound article: 'Jude' (Spoilers! Kinda)
002 - Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au - hallucinations, delusions and big butterflies....
003 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Sight and Sound article: 'Jude' (Spoilers! Kinda)
004 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Re: KW article and fave shots.
005 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: KW article and fave shots.
006 - Sally Male <delirium@arie - Melbourne screening of HC tommorow night...
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n155.1 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Sight and Sound article: 'Jude' (Spoilers! Kinda)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 20:26:17 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Geoffrey Macnab, Sight and Sound, Vol. 6, Issue 10, Oct. 1996, p. 45
'Jude'
[The usual list of credits, ala 'Sight and Sound']
................................=20
Rural England, the nineteenth century. Jude Fawley, a self-taught,
intelligent young man, dreams of following in the footsteps of his old
school teacher, Phillotson, and moving to Christminster, the seat of an
ancient university. But he's distracted from his ambition when he falls
for Arabella Dorn, the daughter of a local pig farmer. Believing she's
pregnant, he marries her.
The marriage soon turns sour. Arabella leaves him and Jude moves to
Christminster. He works as a stonemason by day and studies by night in
the hope of being accepted by the university. He meets his cousin, Sue
Bridehead, a high-spirited, intelligent young woman. When she loses her
job, he arranges for Phillotson to take her on as an assistant teacher.
He's secretly obsessed with her, but realises any relationship with her
will be taboo. Rejected by the university, Jude decides to return to his
village, but Sue summons him to Melchester, where she has now moved with
the teacher. When she learns about Arabella, she is deeply hurt and
marries Phillotson as an act of retaliation, Jude seeks solace in a
local pub, runs into Arabella and spends the night with her.
Sue is unhappy in her marriage. Phillotson agrees to let her leave
and set up home with Jude instead. Time passes. The couple aren't
married and are therefore spurned by the local community. What's more,
they have three children to look after, two of their own and a son from
Jude's marriage to Arabella. Convinced that it is his fault Jude and Sue
are at such a low ebb, the son kills his two siblings and hangs himself
on the very day that Jude secures a new job. Sue is sure that it is
divine retribution and that she must pay by suffering. She refuses to
live any longer with Jude. The couple love each other, but must now
always stay apart.
...............................................=20
The Wessex depicted in Jude is far removed from the luxuriant pastoral
landscapes familiar from John Schlesinger=92s 'Far from the Madding Crowd=
'
or Roman Polanski's 'Tess'. It's a grey, oppressive place where the sun
seldom shines. The film opens in stark fashion, with a black and white
sequence showing its young protagonist alone in a wet field, feeding the
rooks he is supposed to be scaring away. As the farmer catches and whips
him, there's a cutaway to a crow hanging dead, an intimation of the
tragic events ahead.
Making his second feature after last year=92s 'Butterfly Kiss',
Director Michael Winterbottom=92s intentions with this material are clear.
He wants to strip away the literary and heritage film trappings that
come attached with Hardy, and to focus on the intense, modern love
affair at the story's core. This creates an unlikely tension. On one
level, 'Jude' is more a study in failure than a romance, the tale of an
obscure autodidact whose background and marital status prevented him
from fulfilling any of his ambitions. There's a striking epiphany when
Jude sees the silver spires of Christminster gleaming in the distance.
But, as if to underline the gulf between what he yearns for and what
he'll experience, the city itself betrays him. When he finally arrives,
it proves every bit as forbidding as the village he has left. In a
poignant later scene, he looks on in near despair at the parade of
university graduates, realising he'll never be able to join it,
Christopher Eccleston captures the naive intensity of the
character, but his Jude is on the solemn side, without the slightest
trace of humour. Even the unlikely presence of veteran British comedy
star June Whitfield as his ailing aunt doesn't seem to soften him in the
least. His dispassion makes the novelettish love scenes all the more
incongrnous. In the first heady days of their affair, Jude and Sue (Kate
Winslet) ride bikes, smoke cigarettes and frolic by the river as if
they're the Anglo-Saxon counterparts to Francois Truffaut's lovers in
'Jules et Jim'. There's plenty of hand-held camera work to hint at the
spontaneity of their feelings. Worse, at one stage they take off on a
slow motion trot down the beach which rekindles memories of Robert
Redford and Barbra Streisand in 'The Way We Were'. Suddenly, albeit
briefly, we're in the realm of crinolined schmaltz.
More successful is the handling of Jude's other romance, with
earthy country lass Arabella (played in vivid fashion by Rachel
Griffiths). Here, at least, Jude's priggishness heightens the comedy.
Whereas Sue Bridehead is other-worldly, Arabella is strictly visceral.
She announces her interest in Jude by lobbing a sheep's liver at him. In
a cruel, but funny sequence, she and her husband try to kill and bleed a
pig. Its protracted death squeal sounds like Jude=92s own lament.
Sex is treated in manly D. H. Lawrence fashion as a dark,
transcendent force. When Jude and Arabella are making love, the camera
catches Jude's body in close-up, as if to match its contours to those of
the mountains outside. Given Jude's extreme earnestness, it's little
surprise that Sue seems to regard sleeping with him with the same lack
of enthusiasm that he showed for disembowelling the pig.
The film-makers' decision to use Edinburgh for Christminster is a
little disconcerting. True, the New Town architecture is well preserved,
but it's also immediately recognisable. Besides, this is where many of
'Shallow Grave's' exteriors were shot, invoking a contemporary
resonance. Winterbottom's claim that he wanted to escape the usual
constraints of the period film is belied by the wealth of extraneous
detail, not all of it relevant. In one sequence which seems either
intended as a nod to the centenary of cinema or a homage to Bill Douglas
(who used the same device in 'Comrades') Jude and his family enjoy a
magic lantern show. In another, there's a loving shot of an old stream
train puffing down the track. Hardy's novels are episodic, which
probably explains why they lend themselves so easily to television
adaptation. Hossein Amini's script, which resorts to written intertitles
to introduce each new segment of the narrative, doesn't even attempt to
disguise the literary origins of the material.
Despite its grim storyline and occasionally leaden pacing, this
'Jude' is still ultimately a heartrending piece of work. It is
noticeable how the colours darken and the characters themselves seem to
pall as circumstances grind them down. Kate Winslet, outstanding as
Jude's fiercely idealistic cousin and lover Sue, starts in an exuberant
groove, but by the final reel is almost mute with suffering. The
humourless Eccleston, for his part, reaches a depth of solemnity which
even he has seldom matched. As in the book, there's a sense of
fatalistic ritual about the way events unfold. Although they're victims
of typically British moral and class prejudice, Jude and Sue are also
like characters in a Greek Tragedy: they've offended the Gods and must
pay for it. Even so, the sheer wanton brutality of their punishment
comes like a bolt from the blue.
Photo: Jude and Sue playing 'ring the bottle' -- "Hoop-la dreams: Kate
Winslet, Christopher Eccleston."=20
This fine issue of 'Sight and Sound' also features a great article on
Christopher Eccleston [some mentions of Kate as Sue Bridehead] and his
works ('Jude', 'Shallow Graves', 'Let Him Have It', et al).
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n155.2 ---------------
From: Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au (Karen M Douglas)
Subject: hallucinations, delusions and big butterflies....
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:36:49 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I think the general consensus is that it's a deliberate shared fantasy
>(not a hallucination) which Jackson chooses to visualize directly. If it's
>from anyone's point of view it's from Pauline's, since we don't see the 4th
>world until she does. We see what she chooses to interpret the 4th world as.
>From Juliet's point of view, it might have looked pretty different.
>To get foolishly ultra-hypothetical for a moment, when Juliet points and
>says, "Look!" and Paul "sees" unicorns, Juliet might have been "seeing"
>something else. What, I don't know.
Firstly Jefferson....thanks for the welcome :)
hmmmm...so the fourth world was juliet's idea, and pauline's creation....
i think you are all right about the concept of the "shared fantasy"....i
found this aspect of the film particularly fascinating anyway.
and as for the unicorns....i particularly enjoyed those big butterflies! :)
>Karen,
> Welcoe to the list! When I first saw the movie I thought Juliet
>and Pauline had a folie a deux; But that can't be right, because then they
>would have just had the same delusions, not hallucinations, right?
Hi Yani....thanks for your welcome also. Hmmmm, you are going to have to
explain something to me though. i'm not exactly sure what a "folie a deux"
is....i assume you mean some kind of "collective" or "mutual" delusional
state??
Karen.
-x-
"There are no problems, only poorly defined opportunities"
_____________________________________
Karen Douglas
Department of Psychology
Australian National University
Canberra ACT 0200
Australia
Ph. +61-6-2495043
Fax. +61-6-2490499
E-mail. Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au
_____________________________________
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n155.3 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Sight and Sound article: 'Jude' (Spoilers! Kinda)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:25:50 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hello all,
I hope I can be permitted an off-topic observation here (I know, the rest
of you are such sticklers), and comment on our own little Rachel Griffiths
(Muriel's Wedding, Cosi)
also getting an honourable mention in the Jude reviews.
cheers
Rb
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n155.4 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Re: KW article and fave shots.
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:54:53 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
on wed, 9 oct Jefferson wrote:
>>You're probably sick of my transcripts right about now, but anyhow here
comes >>another one. THE INDEPENDENT had an article on Kate in the Sunday 29
sept 1996 >>issue:
> Bite your tongue.The day I get tired of KW-related material is the day you
can >start looking for the body snatcher pods in my back yard.
Ok, I'll start looking *giggle*. Anyway I was only kidding. I couldn't get
tired of reading praising articles about KW either...Hey could anybody spot
the Monty Python quote above ?
Fave shots;
I know it's some time since the subject was brought up, but here we go:
1) The shot during the 'Donkey seranade' is brilliant I think. Especially
the way the camera movies around the Hulme dining table, with Pauline
watching Mrs. Hulme.
2) Juliet and Pauline standing hand in hand infront of Ilam all dressed up
and looking rather serious.
3) Juliet and Pauline playing airplanes under the trees and running towards
Ilam. Great shot I think, you almost feel like you're running right behind them.
4) Pauline running after Juliet on the hill at Port Levy. Heh, doesn't that
shot somehow remind you of The Sound of Music ? Thank God Pauline didn't
start singing 'The hills are aloud with the sound of Mario Lanza' here.
5) Juliet coming down the stairs at Ilam to the tune of 'The Loveliest night
of the year'. Wonderful shot.
6) Pauline giving Honora the evil eye after coming out of the bath room.
Man, can she throw the evil eye or what ?
7) The rest.
Oh and Adam Abrams, cool quizz !
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
"You should have written vint" Heavenly Creatures
DGIF no #11521
"I was born to speak all mirth and no matter"
William Shakespeare, Much ado about nothing
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n155.5 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: KW article and fave shots.
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 04:26:43 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tine Nielsen wrote:
> 4) Pauline running after Juliet on the hill at Port Levy. Heh, doesn't that
> shot somehow remind you of The Sound of Music ? Thank God Pauline didn't
> start singing 'The hills are aloud with the sound of Mario Lanza' here.
Yes! That is so true! ROTFL... Off to bed.
lybao@earthink.net
"Life is very hard."
====================
Another good night not to sleep in a eucalyptus tree.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n155.6 ---------------
From: Sally Male <delirium@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Subject: Melbourne screening of HC tommorow night...
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:30:08 +1000 (AEST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Helllloooo
I remember Donald Chin mailing the group months ago stating that HC was
playing in Melbourne a few months ago. And it's supposed ot be on
tomorrow night.
Details is what i need folks, cause I lost that mail.
Sal
Nothing can stop me now,
Cause I don't care anymore
Nothing can stop me now,
I just don't care.
http://ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au/~delirium
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n155 ---------------
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n156 --------------
001 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Hi! Please pass it along -- someone sent it to all the
002 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Hi! Please pass it along/KW and childbirth
003 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: KW article
004 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Dear Sandra...
005 - Alicia Cook <alicia@craft - Re: Dear Sandra...
006 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Dear Sandra...
007 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Other PJ movies.
008 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re: Hi! Please pass it along/KW and childbirth
009 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: hallucinations, delusions and big butterflies....
010 - trustno1@ra.isisnet.com ( - xfiles
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.1 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Hi! Please pass it along -- someone sent it to all the
students at Mount Union.
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:24:16 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Return-Path: bb894@lafn.org
>X-Sender: bb894@lafn.org
>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:00:39 -0700
>To: harden00@sbc.edu
>From: Nisse Lee <bb894@lafn.org>
>Subject: Hi! Please pass it along -- someone sent it to all the
> students at Mount Union.
>Cc: cgquinn@wam.umd.edu, smulugu@sprint.net, cherub695@aol.com,
> dragon_z@geocities.com, lee@cards.com, rebecca.berg@bowiestate.edu,
> apotash@ccucs.coastal.edu, arthesis@voicenet.com,
> dkerr@morgan.ucs.mun.ca, dpensyl70@aol.com, jds746@aol.com,
> khart58550@aol.com, mpellas@sgi.net, MDoyle8665@aol.com,
> Mrozario@aol.com, soros@earthlink.net, rebecca.berg@bowiestate.edu,
> ulazott@pop.erols.com
>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:27:58 -0400
>>From: Stephanie Hierro <hierrosm@muc.edu>
>>To: martt@acad1.stvincent.edu, gvince@bgnet.bgsu.edu, bb894@lafn.org
>>Subject: Hi! Please pass it along -- someone sent it to all the
>>
>> students at Mount Union.
>>
>>Susan Dillon wrote:
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:41:03 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: Colleen McCarthy <cmccarth@ashland.edu>
>>> To: sdillon1@ashland.edu
>>> Subject: Fwd:Save Sesame Street
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:48:09 -0400
>>> From:Velvetbabi@aol.com
>>> To: VoudouTA@sbu.edu
>>> Cc: Gowin50@snycorva.cortland.edu, ajgoodwi@mailbox.syr.edu,
>>> Macko95@potsdam.edu, cmccarth@ashland.edu, csmith1@oswego.edu
>>> Subject: Fwd: (fwd)
>>> > ---------------------
>>> Forwarded message:
>>> From: spelman@Oswego.EDU (Danielle Marie Spelman)
>>> To: Velvetbabi@aol.com
>>> CC: Salmon@Oswego.EDU, mvanslyke@Oswego.EDU
>>> Date: 96-09-30 16:30:18 EDT
>>> > Send this to all Mom!!
>>> love ya
>>> Dani
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:39:08 -0400
>>> From: EuphMan <allen86@potsdam.edu>
>>> To: "Siconolfi, Opera-Man" <MSiconolfi@aol.com>,
>>> Peter Feroe <psaildude@aol.com>,
>>> "Moore, James" <x01848d2@cadet1.usma.edu>,
>>> "Miller, Greg" <mill1234@NY.frontiercomm.net>,
>>> "Koretsky, Raymond" <rkoretsk@syr.edu>,
>>> "Katsetos, Stavros the greek freak"
>><sk005f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>,
>>> "Hait, Jenn" <stu950608@boaz.gcc.edu>,
>>> "DuBois, Dana at College" <DD9455@cnsvax.albany.edu>,
>>> "Cooke, Buddy" <x01243e2@cadet1.usma.edu>,
>>> "Collins, Carlos" <Tenor1m@aol.com>,
>>> "Boisvert, Sean at RIT" <SMB2217@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>,
>>> joeallen@vnet.ibm.com
>>> Cc: napier01@snycorva.cortland.edu, spelman@Oswego.EDU,
>>> khby@MUSICB.MARIST.EDU, discioriom@hartwick.edu,
>>> beechlbe@draco.clarkson.edu, bethke@aol.com, rappapst@aol.com,
>>> snyder09@potsdam.edu, kdiscior@pepsi.com,
>>rh001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu,
>>> bucci38@potsdam.edu, alapp@elmira.edu, jjim31@cornell.edu,
>>> suckow05.edu@potsdam.edu, ADo14659@aol.com, SJC0179@siena.edu,
>>> danielrs@craft.camp.clarkson.edu, schmitlo@cleo.bc.edu,
>>> rwiatrow@baldwinw.edu, macko95@potsdam.edu,
>>donohu33@potsdam.edu,
>>> "be26502@binghamton.edujtuz"@kraken.mvnet.wnec.edu,
>>> CABRERAI@draco.clarkson.edu
>>> Subject: Re:
>>> > Sean Ellison wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Dear Friends:
>>> >
>>> > Please help save Sesame Street from being canceled!!!
>>> > Just add your name to the list and send the message to everyone
>>you
>>> > know.
>>> > This message is brought to you by the letter "H" (for help) and
>>the
>>> > number "1,000,000" (for the number of names we want to sign)
>>> >
>>> > THE CHILD IN YOU, THANKS YOU.
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________________________
>>> > __
>>> > Save Sesame Street from being cancelled!!!!!!
>>> >
>>> > This is a petition to save Sesame Street. ALL YOU DO IS ADD
>>YOUR
>>> > NAME
>>> > TO THE LIST AT THE BOTTOM, then forward it to everyone you know.
>> The
>>> > only
>>> > time you send it to the included address is if you are the
>>50th,100th,
>>> > etc.
>>> >
>>> > Send it on to everyone you know.
>>> >
>>> > PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major
>>> > cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to
>>reduce
>>> > spending
>>> > costs and streamline their services, the government officials
>>believe
>>> > that
>>> > the funding currently going to these programs is too large a
>>portion of
>>> > funding for something which is seen as "unworthwhile."
>>> >
>>> > Currently, taxes from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per
>>person
>>> > per year, and the National Endowment for the Arts equals $.64 a
>>year in
>>> > total. A January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that
>>76% of
>>> > Americans wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national
>>defense
>>> > and law
>>> > enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal funding.
>>> >
>>> > Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations commitees each
>>have 13
>>> > subcommitees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies.
>>Each
>>> > subcommitee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each
>>year is to
>>> > have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which
>>is
>>> > October. In the instance of the Corporation of Public
>>Broadcasting, the
>>> bill
>>> > determines the funding for the next three years.
>>> >
>>> > When this issue comes up in 1996, the funding will be determined
>>for
>>> > fiscal years 1996-1998. The only way that our representatives
>>can be
>>> > aware of the base of support for PBS and funding for these types
>>of
>>> programs is
>>> > by making our voices heard.
>>> >
>>> > Please add your name to this list if you believe in what we
>>stand for.
>>> > This list will be forwarded to the President of the United
>>States, the
>>> > Vice President of the United States, the House of
>>Representatives and
>>> Congress.
>>> >
>>> > If you happen to be the 50th, 100th, 150th, etc. signer of this
>>> > petition, please forward to:
>>> >
>>> > kubi7975@blue.univnorthco.edu.
>>> >
>>> > This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them.
>>Forward this
>>> > to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you.
>>> >
>>> >
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------<
>>> >
>>> > 1. Elizabeth Weinert, student, University of Northern
>>Colorado,
>>> > Colorado.
>>> > 2. Nikki Marchman, student, University of Northern Colorado,
>>> > Colorado.
>>> > 3. Laura King, Salt Lake City, Utah
>>> > 4. Mary Lambert, San Francisco, CA
>>> > 5. Sam Tucker, Seattle, WA
>>> > 6. Steve Mack, Seattle, WA
>>> > 7. Stacy Shelley, Sub Pop Records, Seattle, WA.
>>> > 8. Amy Saaed, Seattle, WA
>>> > 9. Jill Hudgins, Atlanta, GA
>>> > 10. Alex Goolsby, student, Colgate University, Hamilton, NY
>>> > 11. Aisha K. McGriff, North Carolina School of Science and
>>Math
>>> > 12. Amy Brushwood, North Carolina School of Science and Math
>>> > 13. Mason Blackwell, student The College of William and Mary
>>> > 14. Melinda Murphy, student, St. Mary's College of Maryland
>>> > 15. Amy Raphael, student, University of Pennsylvania
>>> > 16. Nancy Adleman, student, Stanford University
>>> > 17. Paul Bodnar, student, Stanford University
>>> > 18. Kunal Bajaj, student, University of Pennsylvania
>>> > 19. Sharon Seltzer, student, University of Pennsylvania
>>> > 20. Sugirtha Vivekananthan, student, University of
>>Pennsylvania
>>> > 21. Ann Wang, student, University of Pennsylvania
>>> > 22. Seth Resler, student, Brown University
>>> > 23. Leslie Ching, student, Brown University
>>> > 24. Sylvia Barbut, student, Carnegie Mellon University
>>> > 25. Karri Plotkin, student, Carnegie Mellon University
>>> > 26. Kamilla Chaudh, student, Emory University
>>> > 27. Jon Gordon,student,Princeton University
>>> > 28. Nadine Knight, student, Princeton University
>>> > 29. Erica Amianda, student, Johns Hopkins University
>>> > 30. Rachel Pletcher, student, Johns Hopkins University
>>> > 31. Janet Aardema, student, Davidson College
>>> > 32. Kelly Kiefer, student, Davidson College
>>> > 33. Jane Ruschky, student, Davidson College
>>> > 34. Courtney Pace, student, Davidson College
>>> > 35. Allison Patten, student, Northwestern University
>>> > 36. Chad Ballentine, student, Franklin Road Academy
>>> > 37. Allison Patten, student, Northwestern University
>>> > 38. Rachel Allen, student, Rhodes College
>>> > 39. Mary Rose Herbert, student, Guilford College
>>> > 40. Christie Todd, student, Rhodes College
>>> > 41. Athena Petropoulos, Rhodes College
>>> > 42. Kathryn Hoang, student, Rhodes College
>>> > 43. Lan To, student, Rhodes College
>>> > 44. Ben Hagy, student, Reed College
>>> > 45. Stephanie Marrs, student, University of Pennsylvania
>>> > 46. Meg Smith, student, Rice University
>>> > 47. Julian Zinn, student, University of Texas
>>> > 48. Adam Talianchich, student, University of Texas
>>> > 49. Michael GLazner, student, Southwestern Universirty
>>> > 50. Katherine Rainwater, student, Southwestern University
>>> > 51. Will O'Brien, student, Southwestern University
>>> > 52. Meridith McConnell, student, Southwestern University
>>> > 53. Amy Cassata, student, Trinity University
>>> > 54. Heather Hanchett, student, Trinity University
>>> > 55. Mike Elsner, student, Trinity University, San Antonio
>>> > 56. ND Victor Carsrud, student, University of Texas Medical
>>> Branch,Galveston
>>> > 57. Michael Eisenstein, Engineer, Dallas, TX
>>> > 58. Tehmina Banatwala, English Teacher, Houston, TX
>>> > 59. Paula Leigh Cox, Account Executive, San Antonio, TX
>>> > 60. Jennifer Franks, Account executive, San Antonio, TX
>>> > 61. Mike Mineo, student, UT medical school, Houston, TX
>>> > 62. Andre de Launay, Amer. Grad. School of Intl.Mgmt,
>>Glendale, AZ
>>> > 63. Tawne Bachus, Thunerbird, the American Grad School
>>ofIntl.Mgmt.,
>>> > Glendale, AZ.
>>> > 64. Ty Bachus, graphic designer, Herndon, VA
>>> > 65. Thomas Inskip, software engineer, Washington, DC.
>>> > 66. Dana Hollish, Green Seal
>>> > 67. Neil Payne, St. Mary's College, MD
>>> > 68. Douglas G. Davis, Gainesville, Fl.
>>> > 69. Paula Garfinkle, Potomac, MD
>>> > 70. Jeff Boodman, Falls Church, VA
>>> > 71. Erica Sangster, Graduate School of Design, Cambridge MA
>>> > 72. Nathalia Glickman, Graduate student, University of Oregon,
>>Eugene,
>>> OR.
>>> > 73. Chee Chan, Ex-Pat, Singapore
>>> > 74. Justin Tan, University of Toronto, Canada
>>> > 75. Sue Burrows, McMaster University, Hamilton, Canada
>>> > 76. Kelly Cox, York University, Toronto, Canada
>>> > 77. Amanda Holt, Ryerson Polytechnic University, Toronto,
>>Canada
>>> > 78. Sara Fisher, University of Guelph, Guelph, Canada
>>> > 79. Elliot Salmons, Ryerson Polytechnic University, Toronto,
>>Canada
>>> > 80. Dori Skye, Ryerson Polytechnic University, Toronto, Canada
>>> > 81. Jana Atkins, York University, Toronto, Canada
>>> > 82. Joshua Engel, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
>>> > 83. Haim Gorodzinsky, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
>>> > 84. Melissa Medley, Loyola University Chicago, IL
>>> > 85. Kim Puhr, Loyola University Chicago, IL
>>> > 86. Lena Dukic, Chicago, IL
>>> > 87. Betsy Greer, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC
>>> > 88. Lisa Thompson, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill,
>>NC
>>> > 89. Ryan Emanuel, Duke University, Durham, NC
>>> > 90. Gautham Venkat, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia,
>>PA
>>> > 91. Christina Varughese, u of penn, phila, pa
>>> > 92. John Varghese, student,University of Md at Baltimore
>>County
>>> > 93. Jason Putsche, student, University of Md at Baltimore
>>County
>>> > 94. Melissa Koponen, student, St John's University, Queens, NY
>>> > 95. Peter C. Frank, student, New York Law School, New York, NY
>>> > 96. Mark J. Bousquet, student, Rensselaer Polytechnic
>>Institute, NY
>>> > 97. Roberta E. Chase, student, Rensselaer Polytechnic
>>Institute, NY
>>> > 98. David A. Phillips, student, Rensselaer Polytechnic
>>Institute, NY
>>> > 99. James E. Charbonneau, student, Virginia Tech, VA
>>> > 100. Sara M. Eells, student, Virginia Tech, VA
>>> > 101. Courtney Reiter, student, Virginia Tech, VA
>>> > 102. Larissa Buccolo, student, Virginia Tech, VA
>>> > 103. Amanda Hill, student, Indiana University, IN
>>> > 104. Tony Grimes, student, Indiana University, IN
>>> > 105. Laurie Metzger, student, Indiana University, Bloomington,
>>IN
>>> > 106. Amy Smith, student, University of Maryland, College Park,
>>MD
>>> > 107. Michelle Crispino, student, University of Maryland,
>>College Park, MD
>>> > 108. Antonella Cavallo, student, University of Maryland,
>>College Park, MD
>>> > 109. Ranjana Varghese, student, University of Maryland, College
>>Park, MD
>>> > 110. Jennifer McCloskey, student, University of Maryland,
>>College Park,
>>> MD
>>> > 111. Jenni DuBreuil, student, Salisbury State University, MD
>>> > 112. Greg Zapiec, student, Salisbury State University, MD
>>> > 113. Helen Woods, student, Salisbury State University, MD
>>> > 114. Gary Bringman, student, Salisbury, State University, MD
>>> > 115. Dave Rabinovitz, Fan of Snuffulluffagas, New Rochelle, New
>>York
>>> > 116. Thea S. Lovallo, Dated Elmo, Port Chester,NY (student)
>>> > 117. Scott Johnson, I am the Cookie Monster... Coo Coo Ca Choo
>>Nashville,
>>> > TN (musician)
>>> > 118. Emily Johnson, Bert & Ernie fan, Nashville, TN
>>> > 119. Greg Engel, I count numbers, Pittsburgh, PA (dentist)
>>> > 120. Franco Sicilia, Jr., I loved Mr Hooper, Philadelphia, Pa
>>> > 121. Kelly Icardi, Bitten by The Count, Pittsburgh, PA
>>> > 122. Lisa Yaszek, graduate student, University of Wisconsin,
>>Madison, WI
>>> > 123. Grant Carmichael, Sesame St. makes great use of TV, Grand
>>Rapids, MI
>>> > 124. Jeffery J. Glasen, Coopersburg, PA
>>> > 125. Laura Trausch Snyder, High School Math Teacher, Lisle,
>>Illinois -
>>> > Please don't take away Big Bird!
>>> > 126. Christine Holguin - San Diego Ca. - Grew up on Sesame
>>Street!!!
>>> Save
>>> > it for my kids!!!!!
>>> > 127. Bess Baer, San Diego, CA
>>> > 128. Candice Anderson, Newport Beach, CA
>>> > 129. Rachel Goodwin, M.S., San Francisco, CA I still watch
>>Sesame
>>> > Street!! It's the greatest. Just today I saw Oscar teach Sloppy
>>to wiggle.
>>> > 130. Judy Corse, Jr. High Teacher, Eagle Rock, CA
>>> > 131. W. Bruce Watson, Livermore, CA
>>> > 132. Ed Costello, Pleasanton, CA. Brought to you today by the
>>number
>>> '5'.
>>> > 133. Julie Buehler, San Bruno, CA
>>> > 134. Denise Ann Maurer, Palo Alto, CA Save the
>>Snuffle-up-a-gus!
>>> > 135. B. Kyle Partridge, Somerville, MA "Mana manam. Doot doo
>>dee doo
>>> doo!"
>>> > 136. A.Y. Laury, Somerville, MA The seeds planted by Sesame
>>can one day
>>> > save the world...
>>> > 137. Alexis M. Scott, Lexington, MA
>>> > 138. S. Steele, Woodbridge, VA
>>> > 139. Alexander Whitney, Associate Scientist, Plainsboro, NJ
>>> > 140. Monica Belton, Assistant Microbiologist, Andover, NJ
>>> > 141. Marika Skiadas, Assistant Microbiologist, Somerset, NJ
>>> > 142. Ann Skiadas, Environmental Engineer, Somerset, NJ
>>> > 143. Sharone Menczel, law student, University of Pennsylvania
>>where are
>>> > the ten missing numbers? (doug anderson, who will be 158)
>>> > 153. Beth Ritter, Awards Coordinator-MTV Networks New York
>>> > 154. Julie Kellman MTV Animation-MTV Networks New York
>>> > 155. Rachelle Etienne MTV Production-MTV Networks, New York
>>> > 156. Doug Anderson- Associate Producer- MTV SPORTS, NYC
>>> > 157. Cinnamon-Anne Booth-Production Coordinator,MTV House of
>>Style,NYC
>>> > 158. Brian Cooper- Production Coordinator, MTV On Air Promos,
>>NYC
>>> > 159. Marisa Fazzina- Coordinator, MTV On Air Graphics, NYC
>>Sesame Street
>>> > is part of American History!!!
>>> > 160. Lynne Mishele- Freelance Producer, NYC
>>> > 161. July Lopez-MTV On Air Graphics,NYC
>>> > 162. Henry Lescaille - MTVN Human Resources, NYC
>>> > 163. Matthew Larsen - MTVN Human Resources, NYC
>>> > 164. Jennifer Langheld - MTV Traffic Assistant, NYC
>>> > 165. Alyson Leonard- Coordinator, MTV Production Library, NYC
>>> > 166. R.J. Murphy - Studio Manager, MTV Animation, NYC
>>> > 167. Michelle Volpe - Office Manager, Cambridge Technology
>>Partners, NYC
>>> > 168. Nandita Bery - Software Developer, CTP, NYC
>>> > 169. Mike Apmann - Ernie & Bert rock. Computer Geek, Pepsi
>>Cola, Somers
>>> NY
>>> > 170. Sal Ulto - Pepsi Cola Somers NY
>>> > 171. Melissa Ulto - Freelance Productions, NY
>>> > 172. Grace M. Church - Warner Brothers/Space Jam, Los Angeles
>>CA
>>> > "MANA-MANA DOOT DO DE DOOT!"
>>> > 173. James C. Sommers - Warner Borthers/Space Jam, Los Angeles
>>CA
>>> > 174. Lisa Furst- Warner Brothers/Space Jam, Los Angeles CA
>>> > 175. Jon Gunn - Warner Brothers/Space Jam, Los Angeles CA
>>> > 176. Patrick Fitch - Warner Brothers/Space Jam, Los Angeles CA
>>> > 177. Evan Fisher - Warner Brothers/Space Jam, Los Angeles CA
>>> > 178. Beth Tigay - Los Angeles CA
>>> > 179. Hillel Tigay - Los Angeles CA
>>> > 180. Dan O'Halloran - B.D. Fox/Los Angeles CA
>>> > 181. Laurie G. Osmond - ABC/Los Angeles, CA 182.
>>> > 182. Steven J. Davis - ABC/Los Angeles, CA 183.
>>> > 183. Jennifer M. Miles - ABC/Los Angeles, CA
>>> > 184. Vincent A. Malizia - Los Angeles, CA
>>> > 185. Chris R. Dunn - Los Angeles, CA
>>> > 186. Matthew Coppola - New York, New York
>>> > 187. Yolanda Sablo-Murray/New York, New York
>>> > 188. Yvette Jones-Gaines/ ABC/ New York
>>> > 189. Phyllis Carter/ABC News, New York
>>> > 190. Melody Finnegan - ABC News, New York
>>> > 191. Rita Ienco - ABC News, New York
>>> > 192. Henry Guglielmo - ABC News, New York
>>> > 193. Laureen Clarke- ABC News, New York
>>> > 194. John Pfersching-ABC Sports, New York
>>> > 195. Laura Prego-ABC Sports, New York
>>> > 196. Mike Webb-ABC Sports, New York - Big Bird Rules!!!!!!
>>> > 197. Lynn Cadden - ABC Sports, New York - I LOVE ELMO!!!!!
>>> > 198. Stefan Petrat - ABC News, New York
>>> > 199. Alison Panico - NTV International Corporation, New York
>>> > 200. TJ Magill - Derwent Information, Washington, DC
>>> > 201. Patty Gallagher - Derwent Information, Washington, DC
>>> > 202. Lesley Weller, cookie lover, Alexandria, VA
>>> > 203. Kathleen Rumfola, Bethesda, MD
>>> > 204. Tanja Gatz, Arlington, VA
>>> > 205. Lori Lefkowitz, Bethesda, MD
>>> > 206. Terri Monahan, Herndon, VA
>>> > 207. Marcia Call, Alexandria, VA
>>> > 208. Nancy Bauer, Alexandria, Va
>>> > 209. Joyce Eicholtz, for all you Henson fans, LA LA LAND
>>> > 210. Les Kumagai, Fan As A Child/Fan As a Parent, Redondo
>>Beach, CA
>>> > 211. Lynne J. Williams, MCI, Oakland, CA
>>> > 212. Elizabeth Gates, MCI, Pasadena, CA
>>> > 213. Diana Calderoni, MCI, Sherman Oaks, CA.
>>> > 214. Sheila Medley, MCI, Atlanta, GA
>>> > 215. Mary Noyes, Stackig Advertising & PR, McLean, VA
>>> > 216. Christy Strazzella, Stackig Advertising & PR, McLean, VA
>>> > 217. Sara Stein, poppe.com (Poppe Tyson) - New York, NY
>>> > 218. Alice Hines, poppe.com (Poppe Tyson - New York, NY
>>> > 219. Erik Hoffman, Klemtner Advertising, New York, NY
>>> > 220. Laura Horstman, St. Louis, MO
>>> > 221. Debra Kennard, saved by Super Grover, Chicago, IL
>>> > 222. Marian Powell, Chicago, IL There's a Cookie Monster in me.
>>> > 223. Audrey Collins, GE Capital, Chicago, Il
>>> > 224. Nancy Ropelewski, Washington, DC
>>> > 225. Lauren ("I can count to 20 thanks to Elmo") Williamson,
>>age 2
>>> > 225a. David Williamson (Lauren's daddy) San Mateo, CA
>>> > 226. Yonna Yapou, art historian, Reston VA
>>> > 227. Alfred Kromholz, management/software analyst, Reston VA
>>> > 228. Arthur M. (Art) Spanier, Ph.D. - Father of 4, New Orleans,
>>LA
>>> > 229. Sharon Spanier Mother of 4 - Educator - New Orleans, LA
>>> > 230. Adam Spanier - LSU Medical School - New Orleans, LA
>>> > 231. Holly Spanier - H.S. Senior - Louisiana School for Math,
>>Science &
>>> > the Arts. Natchitoches, LA
>>> > 232. Rebecca Spanier - H.S. Freshman - "Save Ms. Piggy" - New
>>Orleans, LA
>>> > 233. David Spanier - 4th Grader - Your signature counts, says
>>the "Count"
>>> > New Oleans, LA
>>> > 234. Edmund W. Stiles - Professor of Biology, Rutgers
>>University,
>>> > Piscataway, NJ
>>> > 235. Boyd R. Strain - Professor of Botany, Duke University
>>> > 236. Kate Lajtha - Associate Professor, Oregon State University
>>> > 237. Tom Fisher - Professor, University of Maryland, CEES
>>> > 238. Heather L. Berndt - Student, University of Maryland
>>> > 239. Shannon M. Berndt - Student, Ithaca College
>>> > 240. Stephanie J. Rzewnicki-Student, Penn State University
>>> > 241. Dana Melcher-Altoona, PA
>>> > 242. Amanda Albright- Altoona, PA
>>> > 243. Shawn Auberzinski- Altoona, PA
>>> > 244. Anna Becker- Juniata college, Huntingdon, Pa
>>> > 245. Stacey Svirsko-Juniata College, Huntingdon, Pa ELMO ROCKS
>>> > 246. Jennifer Stum-Juniata College, Huntingdon, Pa
>>> > 247. Michael Chrisley-Spring Grove, PA
>>> > 248. Matthew J. Bange-Gettysburg College, Gettysburg, PA
>>> > 249. Megan S. Aepli-Gettysburg College, Gettysburg, PA
>>> > 250. Jeremy J. Ross-Harvard University, Cambridge MA
>>> > 251. David Lee Hall, III-Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy
>>NY
>>> > 252. Thomas E. Magers-Kenyon College, Gambier, OH
>>> > 253. Kristopher J. Armstrong - Kenyon College, Gambier, Ohio
>>> > 254. David Robrich Hoffman - Kenyon College, Gambier, Ohio
>>> > 255. Robert N. Johnson - Kenyon College, Gambier, Ohio
>>> > 256. Kelly Patricia Dillon-Kenyon College, Gambier OH...it may
>>not be
>>> easy
>>> > being green, but kermit helped us all be our own.
>>> > 257. Jessica Acevedo- Allegehny College, Meadville PA...Please
>>don't take
>>> > Elmo away!
>>> > 258. Patience Bartunek - Allegheny College, Meadville,Pa..Save
>>Big Bird
>>> > 259. Steve Smith (Cowboy Commando) - Baylor University
>>> > 260. Julie Hoefler, Allegheny College, Meadville Pa
>>> > 261. Michelle Abboud- Allegheny College Meadville Pa Can you
>>tell me how
>>> > to get, how to get to Sesame Street? I'm still looking for it so
>>you can't
>>> > take it away!
>>> > 262. Andrew Miller -Allegheny College, Meadville, PA
>>> > 263. Minda Berbeco - from a corn field in western PENN
>>> > 264. Sarah Osten - student in Connecticut
>>> > 265. Jessica Brakeley - student at Brown University
>>> > 266. PHILIP BARD STUDENT AT ST. MICHAELS
>>> > 267. Melinda Hayes student at St. Michael's
>>> > 268. James Provost Colchester Vt.
>>> > 269. Annah Hornick Colchester Vt. >
>>> > 270. Laura Desrosiers - student at Susquehanna University
>>> > 271. Jeff Orlando - student, Susquehanna U.
>>> > 272. Scott Faust-student, Susquehanna U. Pa
>>> > 273. Glennis Flint-student, Susquehanna U. Pa
>>> > 274. Bob Tuohy, student, SUNY Potsdam, NY
>>> > 275. Sean Ellison, student, SUNY Potsdam, NY
>>> > 276. Luke Trombley, student, SUNY Potsdam, NY
>>> > 277. Frank Goehle, student, SUNY Potsdam, NY
>>> > 278. Jason Coleman, student, SUNY Potsdam, NY
>>> > 279. Rebecca Elliston, student, SUNY Potsdam, NY
>>> 280. Melinda Macko, student, SUNY Potsdam
>>> 281. Prudence Daley, student, SUNY Potsdam
>>> 282. John Erhardt, student, SUNY Potsdam
>>> 283. Mark Donahue, student, SUNY Potsdam
>>> 284. Robert Allen, student, SUNY Potsdam
>>> 285. Danielle Spelman, student, SUNY Oswego, NY
>>> 286. Colleen McCarthy, student, Ashland University, Ohio-
>>Grover is
>>> too cute to be taken away! I grew up with this show!
>>> 287. Sue Dillon, student, Ashland University, Ohio 288.
>>Stephanie Kreiner, student, Ohio University
>>289. Stephanie Hierro, student, Mount Union College, Ohio
>290. Nisse Lee, student, Moorpark College, CA.
>>> 291. Mathew A. Smith, Student, Youngstown State University,Ohio
>292. Michael Pellas, Pittsburgh,pa
>
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.2 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Hi! Please pass it along/KW and childbirth
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:43:26 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Michael,
I hope this was just a little mistake on your part. Sending irrelevant
messages to subscription lists, especially large messages (25k), is very
naughty and is called "spamming". Miss Waller would be very cross
indeed, it is much akin to talking out of turn in class, not to mention
writing rubbish about the royal family. I think we're all very tolerant
here and put up with quite a range of irrelevancy from other people (our
own interests being of course invariably spot-on topic and fentestuc), but
this is rather a severe breach of netiquette in anyone's terms. Let's
hope it doesn't happen again, or Old Stew will have something to say I'm
sure.
Everyone,
And while I'm here, I must say that Arena article was *quite* a different
insight into KW. And what about "In order to achieve that authentic
labour pain rasp in her screams, Kate had borrowed some childbirth videos
from the BBC's library". Gosh, we thought she was already an expert on
chilbirth scenes.
cheers
*Rana borovnia*
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.3 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: KW article
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:17:10 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Jefferson F. Morris wrote:
> > Her last contemporary role was the girl in the Sugar Puffs ad.
> Okay, I really really want to see this ad now. It should definitely be
> included in the supplement to Criterion's HC disc.
Um... good luck. If they included *that*, then maybe they'd also include
some KW baby photos.
Shannon
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.4 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Dear Sandra...
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:26:09 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Sandra (or anyone else who knows what the hell ROTFL means),
What's with this ROTFL thing? Enlighten me, please. I've been silent for a
week on this one, thinking that it would just go away, but no, it seems to
be here for the duration. So... please expand those letters for me! Is this
a mush thing ('cause I don't have access to this delicacy :-( )?
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'dfit78549n4095vue9r8dgim[-r8jg'
yeah...
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.5 ---------------
From: Alicia Cook <alicia@crafti.com.au>
Subject: Re: Dear Sandra...
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:12:40 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au wrote:
> Sandra (or anyone else who knows what the hell ROTFL means),
>
> What's with this ROTFL thing? Enlighten me, please. I've been silent for a
> week on this one, thinking that it would just go away, but no, it seems to
> be here for the duration. So... please expand those letters for me! Is this
> a mush thing ('cause I don't have access to this delicacy :-( )?
*grin* No, it's not a mush thing. It's an acronym (goodness don't we love
those acronyms). It's actually short for "Roll On the Floor Laffing".
some people I know (mega geeks - I know you're out there) actually say
rofl in rl (real life *smirk*)..
I heard a great acronym today :) AGAP... anyone hazard a guess as to what
it is?
Naah, this is so off topic I'd better stop. It's actually "as goth as
possible". Only a gothic would find such a term funny.. But that would be
a contradiction of terms.. *sigh*.. such is life my friends :))
Putting her irrelevant 2 cents in as always :)
Love the effervescent Alicia.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.6 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Dear Sandra...
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:18:22 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Shannon,
It's only Internetspeak -
Rolling
On
The
Floor
Laughing
It's quite simple when you get the hang of it...
*Rana borovnia*
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.7 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Other PJ movies.
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:02:30 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Fellow Creatures,
Somebody a while back asked if people had seen other PJ films.
I had never heard of Peter Jackson before I went to see HC I must admit. And
when I did a bit of research about him, I found out, that the movies he made
before HC was not exactly the kinds I normally like to see. Too bloody and
splatter-like I reckon. I am not really into those types of movies. Last
one of that kind I saw was in junior high, I think it was 'Pet Semetary' (if
I remember correctly). How ever I do think that I am going to see 'The
Frighteners'..
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
"You should have written vint" Heavenly Creatures
DGIF no #11521
"I was born to speak all mirth and no matter"
William Shakespeare, Much ado about nothing
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.8 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re: Hi! Please pass it along/KW and childbirth
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:56:40 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear list,
Please do accept my apologies for the letter.
It was a mistake.
Please, it was an absolutly dreadful mistake, I put my head on the block to
be chopped off.
humbly yours,
Michael
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.9 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: hallucinations, delusions and big butterflies....
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:57:29 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Karen M Douglas wrote:
> i particularly enjoyed those big butterflies! :)
I can distinctly remember that the first time I saw the film, it was that
very shot which made me think, "Hey...this isn't gonna be just your
average video rental, is it?" It felt momentous. I realized this film
was going to be something rather special. When they ran into the fourth
world, I felt like I was making a similarly wonderful discovery, that the
film was going to become something that would completely transport me and
provide me with a unique sense of aesthetic joy. It's a strange euphoria
when you realize that a work of art is touching you so powerfully that it'll
be with you for the rest of your life.
Anyway, my feeling was right. I was sucked right in, and I loved every
minute of it. And my mother's still alive to boot.
--Jefferson
_________________________________________________________________
"If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, GET
OUT OF BED AND GO INTO THE KITCHEN AND FIX YOURSELF A SNACK."
--Mark A. Peterson, 'Steps In Overcoming Masturbation'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n156.10 ---------------
From: trustno1@ra.isisnet.com (Gina)
Subject: xfiles
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:40:16 -0300 (ADT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hello fellow listers,
does anybody on this list happen to be die-hard xfiles fans. if ya are,
and ya happen to have the newist cd that has music by mark snow could you
PLEASE possibly make me a copy of it. im really broke and really really
really want it. ill scrounge up the SASE if thats a problem.
hopeful :)
celeste
"...next time i write in this diary mother will be dead. How odd
yet how pleasing..."
~PYP
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n156 ---------------
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n157 --------------
001 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: hallucinations, delusions, et al
002 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: xfiles
003 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: hallucinations, delusions, et al
004 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Fourth World and diary thoughts
005 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Favourite Shots
006 - Nancy Marth <nmarth@spati - Re: Favourite Shots
007 - Donald Chin <donaldc@nets - re:Melbourne screening of HC tommorow night...
008 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re: Other PJ movies.
009 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - NEW PICS
010 - pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk - HC showing in London, 13.10.96
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.1 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Re: hallucinations, delusions, et al
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:55:01 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au (Karen M Douglas)
Subject: hallucinations, delusions and big butterflies...
>4) Pauline running after Juliet on the hill at Port Levy. Heh, doesn't that
>shot somehow remind you of The Sound of Music ? Thank God Pauline didn't
>start singing 'The hills are aloud with the sound of Mario Lanza' here.
This shot always seemed to raise a chuckle in the theatre (for that very
reason, I assume)!
>Oh and Adam Abrams, cool quiz!
(Adopting Elvis voice) Thankyaverymuch, thank you...
But what was your score?
Cheers,
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.2 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: xfiles
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 18:39:59 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>does anybody on this list happen to be die-hard xfiles fans> Gina
It so happens I am.
Unfortunately I'm on the wrong end of the country and not well known
enough to get a part on the show.
Well, I'm working on it. I want to do an Xfiles bad!!!
Mel should do an Xfiles!
Jean Guerin
Bon Vivant, Raconteur
Writer (HOUR, CineFantastique)
Actor ("Heavenly Creatures")
Film Buff (Fant*Asia Festival & The Festival That Ate My Brain)
Movie Critic (CBC's Brave New Waves & CBC-TV's CityBeat)
"Sexy Demon" -TIME magazine
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.3 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: hallucinations, delusions, et al
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 18:41:18 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>4) Pauline running after Juliet on the hill at Port Levy. Heh, doesn't that
>>shot somehow remind you of The Sound of Music ? Thank God Pauline didn't
>>start singing 'The hills are aloud with the sound of Mario Lanza' here.
>
>This shot always seemed to raise a chuckle in the theatre (for that very
>reason, I assume)!
Exactly what Peter and Fran wanted!
Jean Guerin
Bon Vivant, Raconteur
Writer (HOUR, CineFantastique)
Actor ("Heavenly Creatures")
Film Buff (Fant*Asia Festival & The Festival That Ate My Brain)
Movie Critic (CBC's Brave New Waves & CBC-TV's CityBeat)
"Sexy Demon" -TIME magazine
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.4 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Fourth World and diary thoughts
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 00:03:32 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Karen M Douglas wrote:
> it's funny though, becuase pauline did write about it in her diaries, so
> she must have either seen it, or believed that she did....in a diary (which
> is reserved for personal thoughts and experiences), one would rarely write
> about another person's fantasies....
Another odd thing about the "Port Levy Revelation" entry is how ordinary
factual physical descriptions - "we sat on the edge of the path", "the sea
was blue" are mingled with descriptions of very extraordinary mutual
experiences and apparently shared mental processes - "we realise", "we now
know", "we saw a gateway through the clouds". It's all in the best
tradition of dream poetry, or, knowing Pauline's propensity to borrow from
Christianity, perhaps the book of Revelation. Except that it's unusual
for a revelation to occur to more than one person simultaneously, and
there's not one first person verb in the whole passage. This is "we" all
the way, a noteable trend in the diary whenever PYP and JMH spend a lot of
time together.
(Aside: Glamuzina and Laurie criticize overinterpretation of the diary,
since most of the passages which still exist were excerpted by the dridful
Medlicott and hence support his folie a deux diagnosis. However, even if
we bear this in mind, the Port Levy entry is still chock-a-block with
"we"s).
To me, the entry suggests that whatever experience the girls had was as
real and solid and beautiful to Pauline as the world around them. In one
of the entries for June 1954 not used in the film, Pauline describes a
dream she has just had which was as heavenly as that day at Port Levy.
That she remembered it at such a crucial time suggests its immense
importance to her and to the girls' relationship.
That said, I agree with Sandra's idea that HC presents the moment in a
deliberately slightly cheesy manner to rubbish the ultra-serious
psychological explanation. It's another bit of revisionism by J&W, saying
"well, it might have been what Medlicott says, but then again, it might
not."
Hmmm, it's just occurred to me, thinking about Pauline remembering Port
Levy in June 1954, that there's another echo, isn't there? At Port Levy
she wrote "Everything was full of peace and bliss" and, as I don't need to
remind you, on the Loveliest Night of the Year (or one of them), she wrote
"We have now learned the peace of the thing called bliss, the joy of the
thing called sin." I'd guess "peace" and "bliss" were favourite words of
hers whenever she was elated (the religious thing again), but it also
prompts the thought that she may well have re-read her own diary, or read
it with Juliet during early June '54.
Anyhow, something sensational to read on the train (as Wilde put it).
Phil
-----
to be tentatively known as <Paradisaea minor var. Cantabrigiensis>
International Nomenclature Board pending
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.5 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Favourite Shots
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 00:27:10 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
It's fascinating to hear everyone's views on this, because I'm completely
addicted to Jackson's style of filming. In HC in particular, the
camerawork is quite at one with the whole emotional movement of the film,
particularly in the tendency to close in on faces as tension builds.
Finding a favourite shot should be difficult. However, one sequence
stands out for me every time.
At Victoria Park, when the girls and Honora emerge from the tearoom and
cross the concrete area towards the gap in the hedge. The camera rises up
and we see them go through, (Paul scans the park), then the camera lingers
for a moment before pulling up, up and right, making the unhappy group
disappear down into the left corner of the picture, showing us the
beautiful park and the sky. One review said that this was almost like
Jackson trying to pull the girls out of time, to stop what was about to
take place, and I think that's right. All through the film the camera has
closed in on faces and objects to great effect, but now it's too late for
it to start pulling away. It's a tremendous and gut-wrenching sensation.
It somehow reminds me of the old cliche of the camera pulling away from
lovers to let them have the moment alone (and make the audience imagine).
A sort of agonizing parody or twist of that, perhaps. Agonizing because
we know that it can't be left there - we suddenly remember the blood,
become aware that the music hasn't finished, and...
What clinches this as sheer genius is the next shot, which pans from
Pauline's legs upward. Here the sound is cut completely to just music and
bird noise, so that although we _see_ her foot go down, we don't hear it.
Time stands still. Moments earlier we had heard the clink of heels on
concrete, now nothing. Except perhaps the audience's hearts breaking in
unison as Melanie clutches a little tighter at the schoolbag. Gulp.
Great stuff.
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.6 ---------------
From: Nancy Marth <nmarth@spatial.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Favourite Shots
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 21:14:05 -0300
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>At Victoria Park, when the girls and Honora emerge from the tearoom and
>cross the concrete area towards the gap in the hedge. The camera rises up
>and we see them go through, (Paul scans the park), then the camera lingers
>for a moment before pulling up, up and right, making the unhappy group
>disappear down into the left corner of the picture, showing us the
>beautiful park and the sky.
I love this scene as well. Also, the scene before that really gives me the
chills--the way Paul stares at Honora while pushing the pastry plate closer
to her and continuing the stare, without blinking, even as she takes a drink
from her glass.
Has anyone noticed that when Paul begins to walk down the path, the first
shot of her legs does not show her scar, yet subsequent shots do. I thought
it might be a shadow blocking it's view, but it's extremely faint or not
even there. Further down the path, the camera shows her legs a second time
but from further away, yet her scar is very pronounced as in other
subsequent shots.
BTW, great quiz! Reminds me of another trivia question: What is the make of
Honora's watch? (Also in the "path" scene). Got a 'B', too, mum.
Nancy
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.7 ---------------
From: Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
Subject: re:Melbourne screening of HC tommorow night...
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:10:52 +1000
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hi all,
Sally Male <delirium@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> wrote...
> I remember Donald Chin mailing the group months ago stating that HC was
> playing in Melbourne a few months ago. And it's supposed ot be on
> tomorrow night.
>
> Details is what i need folks, cause I lost that mail.
ugh, it was last night at the astor in prahran. i hope you didn't miss it.
heavenly creatures was still fabulously wonderful after the umpteenth time!
watching it on video really is no way to view this great fill. there
weren't many in the cinema for the showing :-(. anyway, i had a great time!
btw, the first feature of the night was quite boring (beautiful girls). it
was just fortunate that it was the first and didn't spoil the remainder of
the double bill.
regards, donald
--
Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
"Lost somewhere in Australia...
and fanatical about Heavenly Creatures and Jane Austen!"
<http://netspace.net.au/~donaldc>
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.8 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Other PJ movies.
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:15:04 -0700
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Tine wrote:
>I had never heard of Peter Jackson before I went to see HC I must admit. And
>when I did a bit of research about him, I found out, that the movies he made
>before HC was not exactly the kinds I normally like to see. Too bloody and
>splatter-like I reckon. I am not really into those types of movies. Last
>one of that kind I saw was in junior high, I think it was 'Pet Semetary' (if
>I remember correctly). How ever I do think that I am going to see 'The
>Frighteners'..
True, those not into low-budget splatterfest film will likely not love PJ's
other stuff...But I should point out that PJ's horror is funny as opposed to
scary, like "Pet Cemetary" for instance. You might all give it a try....
Ciao
Steven Fammatre
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.9 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: NEW PICS
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 04:18:04 -0800
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Hi Creatures,
Well, I spent a productive afternoon at the library, and the result is a
couple of new pics on the HC Website! (I've also redesigned the Gallery a
bit, hope you like it.)
1) The infamous school picture of Pauline.
I don't believe anyone else has posted this anywhere yet(?) Alas, it's not
the greatest reproduction, but I'm working on a better copy. It was a
reference book, I was going to scan it in the library's computer lab, but
was told their scanner was taking a long time to hook up. (Noticing it was
an all-IBM lab, I nodded my head in knowing sympathy.) So it's a photcopy.
2) Fanciful illustration from "The World's Worst Murderers" by Charles
Franklin (1965).
In which P & J are portrayed cavalierly swooping away from the murder scene
like fashion models on a runway. Rather hilarious. (This drawing is visible
in the press clipping montage in the Glamuzina and Laurie book - I was
pleasantly surprised to discover its original source!)
Oh, here's a quote from that book that stuck out, regarding Pauline's "The
Ones That I Worship". It's a howler:
"There is no record of how the court heard this rather crude piece of
doggerel which betrays a pretty poor standard of literary composition and
little evidence of intelligence. Pauline admitted she was more than usually
conceited when she wrote it but she still stood ny its sentiments, said the
witness. In Dr. Medlicott's view it contributed to convince him of the
girl's insanity."
He should have skipped the inept art criticism and stuck to inept crime books.
Enjoy the pics!
Adam
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n157.10 ---------------
From: pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Subject: HC showing in London, 13.10.96
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:45:14 GMT+0100
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Hello all
Just when I was feeling _fentestucally_ jealous of Donald's HC showing...
The best film of all time will be screened tomorrow (Sunday 13, 1.30 pm) at
the Phoenix Cinema, High Road, London N2 (0181 444 6789)!!
If there _are_ any other English whatevers in reach of London, get
yourselves along. I will be making the pilgrimage!
Phil
----
INB classification under ajudication
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n157 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Sun Oct 13 06:00:53 1996
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n158 --------------
001 - pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk - Re: NEW PICS (poem bit)
002 - Bryan Woodworth <bryanw@b - STARZ! showing again this month
003 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Movieline article: 'Jude' (blah blah)
004 - Sally Male <delirium@arie - Missing the heavens
005 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Visit to Melbourne
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n158.1 ---------------
From: pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Subject: Re: NEW PICS (poem bit)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:10:43 GMT+0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> "There is no record of how the court heard this rather crude piece of
> doggerel which betrays a pretty poor standard of literary composition and
> little evidence of intelligence. Pauline admitted she was more than
> usually conceited when she wrote it but she still stood by its
sentiments,
> said the witness. In Dr. Medlicott's view it contributed to convince him
> of the girl's insanity."
>
> He should have skipped the inept art criticism and stuck to inept crime
> books!
Quite! [serious English poetry teacher voice on] It's a fascinating poem!
Actually, I've been meaning to ask... I'm giving some classes later this
term where the chief requirement is for me to throw the students completely
off guard with the most unusual/brilliant/extraordinary bits of 'literary'
text I can find. Last year I gave one on Bonnie Parker's 'Story of Bonnie
and Clyde' (now there's a doggerel, though quite a funny one) which was fun
and woke up a few snoozers who thought they'd heard it all before.
This time I thought of trying 'The Ones That I Worship'. If anyone has any
bright ideas about what other texts (poems, prose, _anything_) might go
with it to make a good class, please mail them! And if any interesting
observations get thrown up in said class, of course I'll send them to the
list for expert consideration.
Otherwise I'll have to do a whole class on HC instead, and they'll probably
fire me on the spot.
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n158.2 ---------------
From: Bryan Woodworth <bryanw@borovnia.666.org>
Subject: STARZ! showing again this month
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:28:53 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,
STARZ! is showing Heavenly Creatures again this month -- consult your
cable guide for details.
Of interest is that the running time is listed as "1 hr, 40 min". That
is 100 minutes. Almost every version I've seen is listed as 99 minutes
(1 hr, 39min). I'm not sure if STARZ! rounded up, if it is an error in
the cable guide, or if I'm just reading too much into this.
Perhaps there is an additional minute of footage? Oh well, as you can
see, I'm desperate to see another version with more bits :-)
b
--
"'Tis indeed a miracle, one must feel, bryan woodworth
that two such heavenly creatures are real." bryanw@borovnia.666.org
-- "Heavenly Creatures," 1994 PGP Public Key obtainable
http://www.reflection.org/heavenly/ via finger: bryanw@best.com
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n158.3 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Movieline article: 'Jude' (blah blah)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:26:51 -0700
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Stephen Farber, Movieline, Nov. 1996, vol. 8, no. 3, p.32 (2)
Hooked on Classics: Hollywood=92s current literary adaptation craze bring=
s
you the faithful 'Jude', a brilliant, bracing success, and the faithful
'Twelfth Night', a respectable, enjoyable failure.
That's the singular achievement of Jude, adapted from Thomas
Hardy's last and greatest novel, 'Jude the Obscure'.
Written by Hossein Amini and directed by Michael Winterbottom,
'Jude' is an extraordinarily forceful film, and it achieves its power by
staying close to Hardy's tragic tale. Jude (Christopher Eccleston) is a
stonemason with an impossible dream of attending a university to become
a scholar. He runs up against the intractability of the British class
system, but you don't have to identify with that specific impediment to
understand the elusiveness of dreams that go unrealized for an entire
lifetime. The doomed love story of Jude and his cousin Sue Bridehead
(Kate Winslet) also resonates, even though the prejudice they face as
unmarried lovers would not be so intense today. The core idea of lovers
trying to test boundaries and being defeated as much by their own
ambivalence as by social pressures is acted out in different forms in
every generation.
The dramatic climax of 'Jude the Obscure', which involves the
destruction of Jude's family, has lost none of its power to shock and
horrify. Given that we're living in a time of unspeakable horrors
perpetrated upon and by children, we are doubly chilled by Hardy's
prescience. Ross Colvin Turnbull, the child actor who plays Jude's
oldest and most damaged son, is superbly cast. He seems almost wizened,
as Hardy described him, and yet heartbreakingly vulnerable as well.
The two leads are also perfectly cast. Christopher Eccleston, who
gave memorable performances in 'Let Him Have It' and 'Shallow Grave',
makes a perfect Hardy hero=97brooding, dogged, morose, and yet painfully
sympathetic. He doesn't look like the typical leading man, but his
acting is so savagely intense that he's riveting from beginning to end.
Even more than in 'Sense and Sensibility', Kate Winslet proves that she
has star power. In a few scenes she is intended to remind us of Jeanne
Moreau's Catherine in Jules and Jim, and these echoes are appropriate.
Sue is the same kind of confused rebel against conventional mores, at
once invigorating and toxic. Winslet creates a rich, mesmerizing study
in contradictions.
Perhaps Winslet and Winterbottom make Sue slightly more sympathetic
than she was in the novel, but this is an understandable and even
defensible change; Hardy's highlighting of her destructiveness may have
been an outgrowth of l9th-century male prejudices that he couldn't
entirely shed. It's a tribute to Hardy's genius that he created a
character of enough complexity to lend herself to varying
interpretations. Most of the changes that have taken place in the
passage from page to screen are similarly intelligent. If the film
inevitably loses some of the telling details of the novel, it
nevertheless affirms the potency of Hardy=92s tragic vision. I think
that=92s the most you can ask from any adaptation. Most important, the
ending of the film is emotionally devastating in exactly the same way
that the novel was, and it leaves you just as shaken.
Photo: Jude and Sue walking. "Hardy Stars: Kate Winslet and Christopher
Eccleston as Thomas Hardy=92s tragic lovers in Jude.
P.S. Sorry, I've been very destructive and busy - eight days without
'Jude' and counting - consumed a lot of Sugar Puffs as of late - Have
some 'Hamlet' and 'Jude' video captured piccys for next time though.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n158.4 ---------------
From: Sally Male <delirium@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Subject: Missing the heavens
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:32:59 +1000 (AEST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> ugh, it was last night at the astor in prahran. i hope you didn't miss it.
> heavenly creatures was still fabulously wonderful after the umpteenth time!
> watching it on video really is no way to view this great fill. there
> weren't many in the cinema for the showing :-(. anyway, i had a great time!
I missed it! I found where it was and was all prepared to go, but
dammit, was too late when everything was organised. I am sobbing on the
floor. Not literally. :)
I saw it originally on the big screen and it blew my mind. Now I settle
for the occasional video.
Hope to meet you sometime again then Donald...
Sally
Nothing can stop me now,
Cause I don't care anymore
Nothing can stop me now,
I just don't care.
http://ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au/~delirium
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n158.5 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Visit to Melbourne
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:19:44 +0800 (WST)
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Hello Melbourne whatevers,
For reasons I have trouble explaining to myself, I am going back to Bleak
City in a week for a week. As you may have noticed, my visits are
brilliantly timed so as to avoid HC screenings (further inexplicability),
but I will have more spare time this time than last time, so if anyone
there wants to get together for a cup of coffee, egg and salmon
sandwiches, discussion of international rules of nomenclature, etc, do get
in touch.
cheers
*Rana borovnia*
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n158 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Mon Oct 14 11:17:15 1996
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n159 --------------
001 - pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk - TLS on 'Jude' + HC screening
002 - Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au - euphoria...
003 - Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au - dridful creatures....
004 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - FILM REVIEW ARTICLE ON KW.
005 - JadeTTP12@aol.com - Re: A new competition
006 - JadeTTP12@aol.com - Re:Theory on the 4th World
007 - B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APC - BORSTEL??
008 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: BORSTEL??
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.1 ---------------
From: pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Subject: TLS on 'Jude' + HC screening
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:37:00 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>From the Times Literary Supplement review of 'Jude', 11.10.96, which I read
today whilst travelling to London to see, you guessed it... HC! :-))
'Secondly, Kate Winslet is miscast as the neurotic Sue. Though
delightfully watchable, she is simply unable (and does not seem to have
been seriously directed) to impersonate the pale "bundle of nerves" Hardy
meant Sue to be. On the contrary, she is so full of a robust physical
energy that no modern audience will believe that she is afraid of sex.
And, since the intellectual aspect of her character has been done away
with, nothing is left but her physical beauty. If in the novel Sue is an
enigma - an impossible, annoying, but somehow sympathetic figure - in the
film she is an empty shell, a woman with no character at all. As if aware
of this, the production has several embarrassing shots of her twirling,
laughing, or just looking; pretending, as it were, that there is something
going on in her head or her heart but not giving any indication what that
something might be.' [pp. 22-23, reviewer: Rosemary Ashton]
BTW,the showing of HC in East Finchley today was just brilliant! The
audience was quite large for a HC show - 100-150ish - and they were really
into it, they hadn't just turned up for S&S afterwards. I think all the
Kate Winslet articles and Jude reviews in the British press have finally
brought HC to the attention of the commoners.
A great big cheer greeted the decapitation of Rev Norris, and the jokes
continued to provoke much mirth right up to and including the line "Go on
Mum, treat yourself". I don't remember what I thought during the tearoom
scene when I first saw it, but I think this audience didn't quite believe
that the murder was really going to happen - and so visually and movingly.
But they believed it when it did - the silence was only broken by a few
sobs and sharp intakes of breath, and then extraordinarily rapt attention
to the sad words of the epilogue.
What a film!
Paradisaea minor var. Cantabrigiensis
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.2 ---------------
From: Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au (Karen M Douglas)
Subject: euphoria...
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:52:51 +1000
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>It's a strange euphoria when you realize that a work of art is touching you so
>>powerfully that it'll be with you for the rest of your life.
Jefferson....
you are totally correct. enjoying a film such as this, or any other
creative art form (a painting, a novel, music etc), is such a wonderful
personal experience....
and it's great to be able to share it with others....
karen.
-x-
"There are no problems, only poorly defined opportunities"
_____________________________________
Karen Douglas
Department of Psychology
Australian National University
Canberra ACT 0200
Australia
Ph. +61-6-2495043
Fax. +61-6-2490499
E-mail. Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au
_____________________________________
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.3 ---------------
From: Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au (Karen M Douglas)
Subject: dridful creatures....
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:19:17 +1000
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Phil....
you have certainly given this a great deal of thought and i appreciate your
response....
i think also that the port levy experience was so important to the girls,
because they had both finally found someone like themselves, and the
creation of a private world for both of them was something special that
only they could "experience". pauline was fed up with her overpopulated
household, appeared a little embarassed by her family, and Juliet was
lonely and received no affection from her parents. teamed with the general
"teenage angst", you had two young ladies who were really glad to get
together and help each other escape their everyday lives...
they were both incredibly odd girls too and this was a way (well, i think
so), where they felt that they could both "belong" to something...
the "we's" as opposed to "i's" would suggest this feeling of belonging
together, almost like they were one entity....or were
interdependent....whose thoughts and feelings were mutual....
it's all very interesting...
whatever they did experience, it was very special to them, like you said....
it's just so incredibly tragic that it became too important for them both....
and lead to such a tragic end.
-x-
"There are no problems, only poorly defined opportunities"
_____________________________________
Karen Douglas
Department of Psychology
Australian National University
Canberra ACT 0200
Australia
Ph. +61-6-2495043
Fax. +61-6-2490499
E-mail. Karen.Douglas@anu.edu.au
_____________________________________
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.4 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: FILM REVIEW ARTICLE ON KW.
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:35:54 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello creatures,
Yet another transcript from the hands of yours truly!
FILM REVIEW NOVEMBER ISSUE 1996.
HEY JUDE
Kate Winslet opines on history, nudity and James Cameron. James Eliot
listens, nodding wistfully.
Despite suffering from a stomach bug, Kate Winslet is remarkably upbeat as
she does interview duty at the Cannes film Festival, where her latest outing
JUDE - a Truffaut-esque adaptation of Thomas Hardy's dark novel Jude the
Obscure - has just been screened to rapturous applauses in the Director's
Fortnight section. "It's amazing what's happened to me in terms of my career
at the moment" Kate enthuses. The past two years have indeed been fantastic
for the luminous blonde beauty from Reading. Her acclaimed performance as a
troubled schoolgirl in Peter Jackson's 1994 breakthrough movie HEAVENLY
CREATURES, put a rocket under her career, but it was her endearing, Academy
Award-nominated portrayal of Marianne Dashwood in Ang Lee's SENSE AND
SENSIBILITY , which took her into the atmosphere and opened the door to a
leading role in James Cameron's next blockbuster TITANIC.
"I don't know another actor of my age who is in the position I am in, and I
don't take a second of it for granted", she confides. "To be in work as an
actor is a great thing; to be in work as much as I am, and to do the things
I've been able to do, is really larger than life, and out of this world. I
have to pinch myself and ask if this really is happening to me". Her
captivating performance in JUDE, Michael Winterbottom's follow-up feature to
last years BUTTERFLY KISS, could well earn her another Oscar nomination. Set
in late 19th century England, it casts Winslet as Sue Bridehead, a
thoroughly modern miss whose relationship with her cousin, Jude Fawley
(Christohper Eccleston), flouts society's conventions with tragic
consequences. Although some people might question Winslet's decision to do
another period piece so soon after SENSE AND SENSIBILITY, JUDE is as
different from, say Merchant-Ivory school of filmmaking as French new Wave
is from Disney. The clothes and mise en scene style are 19th century, but
Winterbottom and writer Hossein Amini have invested their film with a modern
sensibility that brings the story to life for contemporary audiences.
"There's a great danger that people will see a period film as just something
that's quite nice to look at but has no relevance to their lives", says
Winslet. "But people haven't actually changed; only time and daily routine
have changed. We still have class differences, people still have problems in
love and property, all those things. It makes no difference that these
characters are wearing a corset, quite frankly. The one thing that this film
will hopefully do is make audiences think period films are great. More over,
Michael's approach accurately reflects Hardy as a writer: He was very
contemporary; he was very strong-minded and no-holds-barren; he saw what was
going on and he talked about it. And he was so heavily critized for doing so
that he never wrote another novel again after Jude the Obscure. I realized
early on that Michael was intending to make this film as I believe Hardy, if
he were alive now, would have wanted it to be made".
Boldy resisting sentimentality, Winterbottom spares the audience nothing of
Winslet giving birth, or Rachel Griffith disembowelling a pig - and in a
scene which is likely to be discussed as much in the UK as it was in Cannes,
Kate Winslet appears nude on screen for the first time. The scene was filmed
some ten weeks into the shoot, by which time Winslet and Christopher
Eccleston had built up a close relationship that made the nudity a little
easier. "Chris was really sweet, but I still found getting my kit off quite
hard. No one was bullying me into it or anything like that, though. I was
willing to do it because it is such a turning point for Sue. She fought so
against falling in love because she believed that she would be giving up
part of herself, part of her independence, in loving Jude. And then when she
finally does say,'Well actually I do want you' it's a very brave thing to do
and a tremendous turning point. "When the time arrives to take my clothes
off, I just thought 'well get on with it girl' and once I'd done it I was
fine. I now know how technical those scenes are - most of the time I was
thinking about making sure I didn't mask Chris's face or reveal his bits and
pieces".
Winslet didn't find appearing naked for Kenneth Branagh in his upcoming
version of HAMLET any easier, though the film did furnish her with one of
the most memorable experiences of her career so far.
"I will never forget the first time I rehearsed the 'get thee to a nunnery'
scene with Ken Branagh," she says with obvious glee. "He's known as mr.
Shakespeare, and there I was playing his Ophelia. I sat there in my jeans
and my t-shirt and my caterpillar boots and there's Ken in the corner doing
'To be or not to be', and I just went f*ck I can't believe this, I'll never
forget that moment".
Winslet's next role find her romantically involved with Leonardo dicaprio
onboard the ill-fated Titanix. She's thrilled to be starring in the latest
James Cameron movie, tho she admits that the prospect is 'goddamn scary'.
her character was originally written as an upperclass English woman, but
Winslet convinced Cameron to make her American. "It would have been too
familiar", she explains. "it's such an obvious class difference. The English
are renowned for being toffee-nosed or cockney, and it's boring, so I told
James that if he didn't make her American he'd lose the audience in the
first five minutes".
It's incredible to think that in the space of ten years, Kate Winslet has
gone from appearing in commercials with Honey Monster to advising James
Cameron on characterization. She is unlikely to relocate to LA, however,
preferring London to all that "weird spread out city" where "everybody's
just on a total power trip".
The End.
REVIEW OF JUDE IN THE SAME MAGAZINE:
by James Cameron-Wilson.
Tragedy engulfs the life of an academix stonemason. Although a film version
of Thomas Hardy's The Woodlanders is currently in post-production (starring
Kate Winslet's boyfriend Rufus Sewel), you won't find Hollywood scrambling
to unleash any other Hardy novles in the near future. Unlike Jane Austen's
witty oeuvre Hardy's books are far from romantic - or even remotely funny -
and in literary circles the author is known as a miserable old sod.
Now comes his bleakest novel of all. Which no amount of controversy at this
years Cannes Festival is likely to salvage in terms of boxoffice lucre. Yes
it's true that you see Kate Winslet in the altogether( brief), but the sight
of her giving birth - complete with a prosthetic baby's head emerging from
her birth canal - is unlikely to translate into dollar signs. For those of
you who skipped English lit class, JUDE (the Obscure) is the story of an
aspiring intellectual and academic who because of his class, is consigned to
work as a stonemason. Trapped by the carnal machinations of one Arabella, by
whom he has a son. Jude then finds himself attracted to the more sensitively
(if high-strung) Sue Bridehead, his cousin (Winslet). Far be it for me to
give away the rest of the plot, but suffice it to say that the broad canvas
of the book has been crudely crammed into two hours, resulting frequent
captions and train rushing into tunnels to signal the passing time. Although
a technically handsome production with a powerful turn from Christopher
Eccleston as the lugubrious Jude, the film's unrelentingly gloom and
narrative clumsiness trips it up at every turn. I left the cinam determined
to find a late-night chemist with a good stock of sleeping pills, or was it
razor blades.
--end----
Hm, it seems to me, that mr. Cameron-Wilson is rather obsessed with box
office number and his dislike for Hardy, than the real context of the film
and further more probably dislikes it simply because it's a feel-bad sort of
film.
People also keep talking about the fact that there's no real villain in this
novel/film, but I keep seeing Arabella as the villain, tho she's not a
disney-esque(with a limp or a hump or heavy drool)/archetypical sort of
villain, it seems to me that she, through her actions, keep throwing
dirt/problems at Jude and Sue.
Somebody asked about release dates of HAMLET; I know that hamlet is
scheduled to open here in March 1997. And woo-hoo Sense and Sensibility will
be released here in a week ! ONLY SEVEN DAYS TO GO !!!!
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
"I am going to the fourth world" Heavenly Creatures
DGIF no #11521
"I was born to speak all mirth and no matter"
William Shakespeare, Much ado about nothing
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.5 ---------------
From: JadeTTP12@aol.com
Subject: Re: A new competition
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:41:08 -0400
I'd say Kate Winslet as Juliet.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.6 ---------------
From: JadeTTP12@aol.com
Subject: Re:Theory on the 4th World
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:51:24 -0400
Here's just my little theory on why the girls murdered Pauline's mother (not
that I really believe it, but it sounded right at the time.)
Here's the theory: Pauline and Juliet really did have a special part of their
brain that let them go to the 4th world (a power to open dimensions maybe?)
but this power was uncontrolled and drove them to insanity.
Any comments? Questions? Other "strange" theories? (they've got to be stange
or they won't count)
JadeTTP12@aol.com
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.7 ---------------
From: B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APCO@balch.com>
Subject: BORSTEL??
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:15:16 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline
I hope someone can enlighten me on this word.
I don't have the script with me, so I'm not sure exactly where it is
(and I call myself an HC die-hard fan). I believe it is where Pauline
is talking about (in voice-over) plans to "moider mother."
I plead total ignorance... my head is on the chopping block...
Pam
"Reach out, Juliet... REACH OUT TO JESUS!!!"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n159.8 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: BORSTEL??
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 12:57:35 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>I hope someone can enlighten me on this word.
Detention home for young offenders. There are many borstels in NZ and
Pauline was sent to one.
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n159 ---------------
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n160 --------------
001 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: STARZ! showing again this month
002 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: STARZ! showing again this month
003 - pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk - Re: HC showing in London (57 versions project)
004 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - 'Jude' and 'Hamlet' piccys & rant
005 - Greer Mundie <rmundie@es. - Script query
006 - Michaela Rhea Drapes <ole - RE: Script query
007 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: Script query
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n160.1 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: STARZ! showing again this month
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:57:57 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 12 Oct 1996, Bryan Woodworth wrote:
> Of interest is that the running time is listed as "1 hr, 40 min". That
> is 100 minutes. Almost every version I've seen is listed as 99 minutes
Film running times can be notoriously difficult to pin down. I'm sure
it's exactly the same movie, and they've just gotten the running time
from a different source. Look up the same movie in three different
review anthologies and there's a decent chance you'll see three different
running times listed, deviating from each other by a minute or two.
Part of the difference might have to do with whether one counts video
logos and FBI warnings.
--Jefferson
_________________________________________________________________
"If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, GET
OUT OF BED AND GO INTO THE KITCHEN AND FIX YOURSELF A SNACK."
--Mark A. Peterson, 'Steps In Overcoming Masturbation'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n160.2 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: STARZ! showing again this month
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 16:00:35 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Film running times can be notoriously difficult to pin down. I'm sure
>it's exactly the same movie, and they've just gotten the running time
>from a different source. Look up the same movie in three different
>review anthologies and there's a decent chance you'll see three different
>running times listed, deviating from each other by a minute or two.
>
>Part of the difference might have to do with whether one counts video
>logos and FBI warnings.
not to mention transfer speeds. In the PAL broadcast standard (Britain,
Australia and NZ) film transfers are done at 25 frames per second as
opposed to the NTSC (US, Canada, Japan) which sees film transferred at 24
fps.
Also film clocking in at 99 minutes 29 seconds might be rounded out to
100 minutes by some and 99 minutes by others.
Chances are that any given network tends to show the same print they did
originally.
The different varieties of HC are delimited by territories. So far the
Miramax cut prevails in North America.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n160.3 ---------------
From: pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Subject: Re: HC showing in London (57 versions project)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:27:26 GMT+0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Just to add that unlike previous theatre showings I've seen, this was the
US version, with no Bloody Bill tennis or ambulance. It was very odd to go
from "We are so brilliantly clever" to [knock knock knock] "Just washing my
hair now, Laurie". The cut to a smacked tennis ball feels much more Peter
Jackson.
Phil
[Paradisaea minor var. cantabrigiensis]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n160.4 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: 'Jude' and 'Hamlet' piccys & rant
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:35:54 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi everyone,
I'd just uploaded some video captured piccys of 'Jude' and 'Hamlet' from
the trailers/teasers to John Argentiero KW page (the alert viewers will
noticed there are no "stand-alone" piccys other than of Kate Winslet - &
maybe one of Kenneth Branagh & one Christopher Eccleston laying on Kate
Winslet instead of Jean Guerin for a change... :-) I don't think John A.
will have a problem with these?).
'Jude' is coming out this Friday, Oct. 18, in the US - the soundtrack
is listed at Tower Records for released tomorrow, Oct. 15. 'Hamlet' is
supposed to come out on Christmas Day in US, correct? And I think in
early January for the UK, et al.? Both the 'Jude' and 'Hamlet' posters
are also currently available.
On a side note, there's a 'Frighteners' 3-D poster (very rare) going for
$150 right now, if anyone is interested; Kate Winslet's autograph is
selling for $75 a piece; also know where you can get S&S 8x10 b&w and
color photos and the script (not the screenplay & diary); a 8x10 color
photo of Kate Winslet in jeans & peachy button shirt; 'A Kid in King
Arthur's Court' presskit (I have one) - about the video captured piccys
mentioned here a while ago for AKIKAC, I will retake those for better
quality in a week or so... not that I've forgotten or anything. Oh, and
there's that vest that KW wore a S&S that I have 50 pounds bidded on,
but I think those people from Amnesty Int'l had closed the auction and
left for the Bahamas or something... (who the hell got the vest, that's
what I want to know!)
Bao, AbFab literate
__________________________________
*Americanus borovnius*
MSCE - Dept. of Information System (currently destroying my time &
education)
International Nonmenclature Board (now accepting 'Borovnian'
classifications)
Heavenly Creatures Funding for the Arts Society (acquiring the 5
versions of HC)
____________________________________________________
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n160.5 ---------------
From: Greer Mundie <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: Script query
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 17:50 GMT+1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In that incredible, emotionally draining scene where Pauline and Juliet are
on the phone to each other, talking about passports ("...They won't give me
one till I'm twenty!") there is one word I can't quite pick up...when
Pauline says "I need my [something] parents consent". What _is_ this word?
I have the soundbite to this part, and even after repeated listenings I
still can't pick it up...if someone more familiar with the script would like
to enlighten me, that would put my mind to rest!
GREER(hasn't seen HC for 3 months and counting...aaaaggghhh!)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n160.6 ---------------
From: Michaela Rhea Drapes <oleanna@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: RE: Script query
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 00:53:31 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tuesday, October 15, 1996 12:50 PM, Greer Mundie[SMTP:rmundie@es.co.nz] wrote:
>Pauline says "I need my [something] parents consent". What _is_ this word?
I believe she she says "sodding parent's consent." Didn't check the screenplay
for this one though. Its lost under my bed or something like that.
regards,
michaela
----
Michaela R. Drapes
oleanna@mail.utexas.edu michaela@cibola.net
http://www2.cibola.net/~michaela
"Now *that* you should see" -Taxi Driver
---
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n160.7 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: Script query
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 02:06:54 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> "I need my [something] parents consent".
"sodding" from "sod" =short for "sodomy"
Note to the debators of "up the duff" :
This time it does mean "up the arse"
Soddingly Yours! :)
Jean Guerin
Bon Vivant, Raconteur
Writer (HOUR, CineFantastique)
Actor ("Heavenly Creatures")
Film Buff (Fant*Asia Festival & The Festival That Ate My Brain)
Movie Critic (CBC's Brave New Waves & CBC-TV's CityBeat)
"Sexy Demon" -TIME magazine
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n160 ---------------