-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n883 --------------

    001 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Need help, please
    002 - Kim Novak <Netdance@world - Re: EVER AFTER -  now there's a
topic
    003 - Christy Price <christy@ty - RE RE: Group Hug
    004 - "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@na - Re[2]: EVER AFTER -  now there's
a topic
    005 - StarScully@aol.com        - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    006 - Stephen Bull <sybull@line - OT:Ever After
    007 - Aileen Dayao <n9343700@ga - FW: Anne Perry (fwd)
    008 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Kiwi accent
    009 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: FW: Anne Perry (fwd)
    010 - Aileen Dayao <n9343700@ga - Re: FW: Anne Perry (fwd)

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.1 ---------------

From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Need help, please
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:10:33 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello Dearest Creatures:
    I've been unable to post recently, but i've been reading. I won't
say a thing about anything.
    Please, where the hell can I get a LaserDisc version of HC?  Does
anyone knows if the DVD version will be available soon?

Thanks for reading

José Antonio


...treat yourself.        ---Paul



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.2 ---------------

From: Kim Novak <Netdance@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER -  now there's a topic
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:50:02 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808130457.VAA07807@lists1.best.com>

I did not like the movie ever after (it's me...are you even surprised?)
but i adored melanie in it. Drew Barrymore's acting seemed so forced
like someone was kicking her in the back to remember her lines. But my
melanie was perfect. She was funny, sincere, perfect. she made the movie
for me. i was so suprised her part was as big as it was! i thought she's
have two lines and be gone. it was quite a favorable suprise. Still, i
wish they had gotten a more appropriate cinderella. I think drew should
stick to movies like mad love. the other redeeming feature of the movie
was Anjelica Huston, back at her wicked best as the baroness. that was
fabulous. still, i watched it for melanie, and i stayed for melanie.

-jen


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.3 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: RE RE: Group Hug
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:20:55 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----
=_NextPart_000_01BDC6BD.517B5E00"


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----------
From: 	Jeroen[SMTP:nbk94@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 13, 1998 10:17 AM
To: 	heavenly-c@lists.best.com
Subject: 	Re: Group Hug


Oh dear, somebody spent too much time in alt.support.depression :(
      Hahahaha, what can I say, I love giving hugs (even cyberones) and
hate conflict, 
    especially among friends--Christy

--
Jeroen - The Netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94 - icq #15894278
All the best people have bad chests and bone diseases.
It's all frightfully romantic! - Heavenly Creatures


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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.4 ---------------

From: "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@nass.usda.gov>
Subject: Re[2]: EVER AFTER -  now there's a topic
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 98 13:50:35 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Jen wrote:
<I did not like the movie ever after (it's me...are you even surprised?)
<but i adored melanie in it. Drew Barrymore's acting seemed so forced
<like someone was kicking her in the back to remember her lines. 
-----
I couldn't disagree with this more. I found everyone's performance
delightful,
especially Mel's. The only problem I had with Drew was that her accent
slipped
every once in a while.

<But my melanie was perfect. She was funny, sincere, perfect.
------
This is very true. She gave away more emotion with her facial
expressions than
many actors/actresses can with words AND expression. She was wonderful
and it
was nice to see that her part was bigger than expected.
Angelica Huston was great. She was so wicked, but there's one scene
where she
actually emulates tenderness and you can feel for her, but then she's
wicked
again. These are the best villians-the ones you love to hate.

Overall I really liked the movie. Except for the row of teenagers
sitting in
front of us. Not that all teenagers are like that-it's just that these
were. But
it would be nice to go see a movie where everyone there was there to
see the
movie and not talk and make fun of everything that happens. Geesh.

-Brandi^^




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.5 ---------------

From: StarScully@aol.com
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:48:52 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-13 03:47:38 EDT, you write:

<< << The only other "famous" person I know of with a
  kiwi accent is Lucy Lawless.  >>
 
 lucy lawless has a kiwi accent?? >>

She sure does.   She's originally from NZ.  :)

*janel*


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.6 ---------------

From: Stephen Bull <sybull@lineone.net>
Subject: OT:Ever After
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:53:30 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hiya all,

Can't wait to see Ever After, but does anyone know when it arrives in
the U.K?

By the way Jean, in a message, you said to you made a comment about
then"Night of the saints scene" and Melanie replied with " You looking
to get shot in the head Jean?". Did she say that in jest or didn't she
just  not get your sense of humour?

Stephen




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.7 ---------------

From: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: FW: Anne Perry (fwd)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:00:53 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Please excuse my stupidity =)) But I've forgotten which is Anne Perry?
ie
which of the two girls?...

I was curious on the comment at the end of the forward below re- the
brutality of the actual murder? I'd imagine that the ppl who researched
HC
would have looked at police reports and the like?...

Carter's Dreams __o    take care- justmeeh.. Aileen.
   Keeper     _`\<,_ mailto:n9343700@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
 .  .  .  .  (*)/ (*) 
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~adayao/index.html

---------- Forwarded message ----------

>isn't a problem. I know that Anne Perry tried to hide this but the
story
>came out a few years ago, and some people are rude by asking her how it
felt
>to murder someone at book signings. This is a taboo subject on the
mystery
>listserv I am on, so no one discusses it. I love her books, she is a
very
>good mystry writer - no doubt drawing from her personal experience. She
>seems to be a very nice person, who obviously made a dreadful mistake
as a
>teenager and has led a good life ever since(I believe she is in her
50's
>now). Everyone is going to have a different opinion on it, but I think
it
is
>too bad people who won't read her books because of a crime she comited
35
>years ago. She also said that the movie protrayed it wrong and that it
>wasn't as violent as the movie showed it ( granted murder is still
murder).



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.8 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Kiwi accent
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:49:14 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes Lucy Lawless has  the kiwi accent we all love.  But not when she is
playing Xena, only when she is herself.  She is a New Zealander.  She
is also
very fluet in many languages and accents, so that is why she turns off
here
Kiwi accent very well in Xena.  Not sure of all of the languages she can
speak, just know there are many.  She was born in Mt. St. Alberts near
auckland, and that is where she lives now, also where Xena is filmed. 
To hear
her kiwi accent really well you have to cath her during an interview,
you will
never hear it in the show xena, although you can here it in some of the
xtras
and supporting cast.

Jennifer


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.9 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: FW: Anne Perry (fwd)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:08:45 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-13 20:01:47 EDT, you write:

<< Please excuse my stupidity =)) But I've forgotten which is Anne
Perry? ie
 which of the two girls?...
  >>

Anne Perry aka Juliet Hulme.  Played in the film by Kate Winslet.

Jennifer


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n883.10 ---------------

From: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: FW: Anne Perry (fwd)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:27:50 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199808140111.SAA11886@lists1.best.com>

> << Please excuse my stupidity =)) But I've forgotten which is Anne
Perry? ie
>  which of the two girls?...
>   >>
> 
> Anne Perry aka Juliet Hulme.  Played in the film by Kate Winslet.
> 
> Jennifer

Thanks Jennifer! I thought so... but then I thought Pauline was the
scriber in that diary ;) =)

Carter's Dreams __o    take care- justmeeh.. Aileen.
   Keeper     _`\<,_ mailto:n9343700@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
 .  .  .  .  (*)/ (*) 
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~adayao/index.html



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n883 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n884 --------------

    001 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: FW: Anne Perry (fwd)
    002 - Lela Kaunitz <lelak@heale - Re: Accents (waS: EVER AFTER)
    003 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - "Wanna get shot in the
heeed?"(was OT:Ever After)
    004 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - The Lady on the plane (Re: Kiwi
accent)
    005 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Accents
    006 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - Just realized.....
    007 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)  - Re: Need help, please
    008 - adam abrams <adamabr@heli - Ever After Observations
    009 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: Group Hug
    010 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: Just realized.....

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.1 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: FW: Anne Perry (fwd)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:49:08 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-13 21:43:36 EDT, you write:

<< << Please excuse my stupidity =)) But I've forgotten which is Anne
Perry?
ie
 >  which of the two girls?...
 >   >>
 > 
 > Anne Perry aka Juliet Hulme.  Played in the film by Kate Winslet.
 > 
 > Jennifer
 
 Thanks Jennifer! I thought so... but then I thought Pauline was the
 scriber in that diary ;) =)
  >>



Well actually pauline is the person who records her e life events at
that time
in a diary, but she is now known as Hiliray Nathan, and Anne Perry was
Juliet
Hulme, who if she kept a diary at that time, it was never found, nor
used to
prove her part in the events.  The film HC is primarily based on
Pauline's
diary, even though Juliet played a major major role in the death of
Honora
Parker.

Jennifer


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.2 ---------------

From: Lela Kaunitz <lelak@healey.com.au>
Subject: Re: Accents (waS: EVER AFTER)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:40:27 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In-Reply-To: <199808130457.VAA07807@lists1.best.com>


>In a message dated 98-08-12 16:57:54 EDT, LaSkA4u@aol.com writes:
>
><< The only other "famous" person I know of with a
> kiwi accent is Lucy Lawless.  >>
>
>lucy lawless has a kiwi accent??

Lucy Lawless, out-of-character has SUCH a Kiwi accent.
She assumes a US Standard (?) accent for the role of Xena.
Anyone interested in getting a WAV file of Lucy with accent is welcome
to mail me privately for a copy.

Speaking of accents, I've always thought that American actors seem to
have
a harder time shedding their accents than do British actors. But I'm not
American, so I suppose I can't speak definitively.


Lela


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.3 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: "Wanna get shot in the heeed?"(was OT:Ever After)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 00:06:41 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Stephen Bull wrote:

>Did she say that in jest or didn't she
>just  not get your sense of humour?

She didn't like the label. I think it bothered her boyfriend. She kept 
asking me if my (then) girlfriend really wouldn't mind seeing me kiss 
another girl. I told her she understood acting.

The Glauzmina and Laurie book was referred to as "THAT book" by Kate
and 
Mel. As in when I bought the book, I suggested I bring it to the set
for 
them to sign (I never did get their autograph...) and they both spat
out 
"Not THAT book!".

They thought that any narrowing down of their relationship to that
label, 
either by tabloids or activists, was missing the point about the 
intensity and complexity of what their characters shared.

I was just trying to get my bearings and had asked Peter "So...let me
run 
this through...You flew me around the world to play Orson Welles in a 
Lesbian love scene?" To which Peter chuckled "That's pretty much it, 
yeah".



(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.4 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: The Lady on the plane (Re: Kiwi accent)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 00:26:48 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

IrishEMT12@aol.com wrote:

>But not when she is
>playing Xena, only when she is herself.

On the flight to NZ, the flight was delayed in LA. In the lobby of the 
hotel in the line to check in I met this absolutely stunning woman. The 
next morning we met again at the terminal and chatted for a while. She 
was very charming. She gave me her card before boarding. Her name was 
Elizabeth Lawless, her address was Australia. Halfway across the
Pacific, 
I used her as an excuse to sneak a peek at the first class "hump" of a 
747. She gave me a funny look when I showed up. I apologized and said 
"Don't mind me, I just want to go up ahead. This is my first time in a 
Jumbo jet" (I'm just a big kid) She smiled and resumed her reading. I 
went up to the front to look out the portholes and went back to the 
tourist class.

Small world, uh? Ngila, the costume designer on HC was also the woman
who 
designed Xena's outfit and Lucy Lawless' wedding dress.

Richard Taylor and WETA also do the creature effects on the Xena and 
Hercules series.

The connection goes on. On "Frankenstein & Me" I worked with Ryan 
Gosling, who is now down in N-Z as star of "Young Hercules"

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.5 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 00:38:08 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Lela Kaunitz wrote:

>She assumes a US Standard (?) accent for the role of Xena.

It's an "international english" way of speaking. Canada is full of it
in 
the media. One expression used to describe it is "mid-atlantic".(As in 
"Can be understood by both Americans and Brits). 

Montreal actors have a bad reputation for "french-canadian accents"
(and 
are often relegated to small roles- they fly in americans for the leads 
for films shot here).

I pretty much speak "TV english" all the time. The same goes for my 
french.

I don't have a trace of "french-canadian" in my english. And I don't
have 
an accent in french either. But I assume them in different company .
It's 
a reflex which helps communications. When I was a tour guide, I'd
address 
the group with just a tinge of their accent so they could understand 
better.  
 

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.6 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: Just realized.....
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 13:51:06 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That Juliet and Pauline could have done the "moider" in a fashion that
would
have passed as an accident.....all they would've had to do is push
Honora
off the hills of Victoria Park....and if she was "merely wounded", then
they
could have easily grabbed her between the two of them and bashed her
head ON
the rocks, so that it looked like an accident.

It amazes me that the girls were so.....cavalier about it.  One would
think
they would have at least TRIED to make it look like an accident



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.7 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)
Subject: Re: Need help, please
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 06:03:31 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199808131810.LAA03525@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199808131810.LAA03525@lists1.best.com>

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:10:33 -0600, "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo"
<jabad@softtek.com> wrote:

>    Please, where the hell can I get a LaserDisc version of HC?  Does

www.kencranes.com

>anyone knows if the DVD version will be available soon?

No announcements have been made yet.

But since miramax is owned by disney and disney hasn't released a
single decent dvd yet (hardly any extras, no anamorphic transfers) i'm
not especially looking forward to it.  What we need is a company like
criterion to release a SE dvd.

--
Jeroen - The Netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94 - icq #15894278
All the best people have bad chests and bone diseases.
It's all frightfully romantic! - Heavenly Creatures


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.8 ---------------

From: adam abrams <adamabr@helix.net>
Subject: Ever After Observations
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:19:22 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, I mentioned that I cought some little "connections" between Mel
in EA
and in HC - nothing intentional, just things that someone with a knack
for
minute and pointless observations would bother mentioning... anyway,
since
no-one bit at my challenge, here's what I saw:

- Board Games
Pauline played Scrabble... Jacqeline plays backgammon!

- Horses
Paul sketched and sculpted them. Jacqueline dresses as one
(reluctantly, it
must be admitted).

- Medieval Setting
Borovnia... 16th-century France. Enough said.

Too bad nobody tried to guess... the prize was my autographed pic of
Mel!


JUST KIDDING! I wish I had one and I sure wouldn't give it away if I
did! 8^)

Cheers!

Adam

=============================================================================
"Only the best people fight against all obstacles - in pursuit of
Happiness!"
=============================================================================




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.9 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: Group Hug
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:35:14 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808130653.XAA25628@lists1.best.com>
<199808130933.CAA13635@lists1.best.com>
<199808131719.KAA19245@lists1.best.com>

Jeroen wrote:

> Oh dear, somebody spent too much time in alt.support.depression :(

Huh? Why's that? Never been there....but you know the addy by
heart...hmmm *jk*

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n884.10 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: Just realized.....
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:37:41 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808140441.VAA11755@lists1.best.com>

Marie Braden wrote:

> It amazes me that the girls were so.....cavalier about it. 
> One would think they would have at least TRIED to make it 
> look like an accident

I've been thinking about this one too. They even left the stocking at
the murder-scene. Of course they paniced, realizing what they had just
done...but still.

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien




--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n884 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n885 --------------

    001 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: EVER AFTER -  now there's a
topic
    002 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Just realized.....
    003 - "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@na - Re:Just realized.....
    004 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Just realized.....
    005 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re:Just realized.....
    006 - Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@h - No thanks necessary/kate_mel list
    007 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - RE: Just realized.....
    008 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - RE: Silhouette
    009 - "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@na - Toodaloo
    010 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - OT: TV and satanic messages 
(was: just realizing)

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.1 ---------------

From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER -  now there's a topic
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:46:12 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199808131811.LAA05499@lists1.best.com>

> melanie was perfect. She was funny, sincere, perfect. she made the
movie
> for me.

Melanie's facial expressions kill me... I was just watching King Kong
(1933) again the other night, and the shipboard screen-test scene where
Fay Wray (Whatever happened to Fay Wray?) has to imagine looking up and
seeing something terrible but fascinating... just made me think Melanie
would be a great Ann Darrow in another movie world where Kong went for
beautiful brunettes not 'golden women'.  She has all the facial charm
required for those close-ups, and a lot of FW's wit.

Btw, I suppose you could say that that scene - in which Darrow is
directed
to imagine something which isn't there - is kind of a joke on the whole
acting-to-SFX thing...  like Michael J Fox acting his bit in The
Frighteners before the rest of the characters had even been cast.  Or,
indeed, looking into that Fourth World in HC.

Cheers,

Phil



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.2 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Just realized.....
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 07:49:59 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Marie Braden wrote:

>That Juliet and Pauline could have done the "moider" in a fashion that
would
>have passed as an accident.....all they would've had to do is push
Honora
>off the hills of Victoria Park....and if she was "merely wounded",
then they
>could have easily grabbed her between the two of them and bashed her
head ON
>the rocks, so that it looked like an accident.

First of all, I've been to Victoria Park and it ain't that steep.
Second. 
The claimed they both picked her up and dropped her repeatedly.

All I can say here is refer to Hitchcock who said it was "very hard and 
took a very long time to kill someone".

If anything, this post reflects the same murderous naivite that
inspired 
the girls.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.3 ---------------

From: "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@nass.usda.gov>
Subject: Re:Just realized.....
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 07:43:01 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


<That Juliet and Pauline could have done the <"moider" in a fashion
that would
<have passed as an accident.....all they would've <had to do is push
Honora
<off the hills of Victoria Park....and if she was <"merely wounded",
then they
<could have easily grabbed her between the two of <them and bashed her
head ON
<the rocks, so that it looked like an accident.

<It amazes me that the girls were so.....cavalier <about it.  One would
think
<they would have at least TRIED to make it look <like an accident

You also have to remember that this was during the 50's, when murders
and the
subject of murder weren't as common as today. In today's society we
have 7 & 8
year olds killing other children for bicycles, and 12 & 13 year olds
shooting up
their schoolmates and admitting they don't have any reason for it. This
is my
personal opinion here, but I think if this situation had arissen in the
present,
Paul and Juliet, having been exposed to the films and books of our
times, would
have been able to cover it up better. They would have been better
'educated' for
murder, I guess you'd say.

-Brandi^^







--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.4 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Just realized.....
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:19:39 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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In-Reply-To: <199808141147.EAA24987@lists1.best.com>



>
> First of all, I've been to Victoria Park and it ain't that steep.
Second.
> The claimed they both picked her up and dropped her repeatedly.
OK, I've only seen how it was presented on film, but it did look kinda
steep.....
> All I can say here is refer to Hitchcock who said it was "very hard
and
> took a very long time to kill someone".
Not always.  Personal experience, NO I don't want to explain.
> If anything, this post reflects the same murderous naivite that
inspired
> the girls.
Maybe.  But I guess it is also true that I am reflecting a society
where, as
Brandy pointed out, we know more now about how to "avoid getting
caught",
etc.  I dunno...it was just one of those thoughts that occur...

Kinda like the thought I had when watching today (which I wasn't going
to
share, but now I am) that it was probably a great deal of fun doing the
shots chasing the girls, particularly the silhouette in the door one,
where
you were like waving your arms.....



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.5 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re:Just realized.....
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 13:59:19 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

BRANDI SMITH wrote:

>In today's society we have 7 & 8
>year olds killing other children for bicycles, and 12 & 13 year olds 
>shooting up
>their schoolmates and admitting they don't have any reason for it.

Murderous children are as old as time itself. We just didn't have TV to 
put every case before us.

If anything the Parker-Hulme case shows is that this sort of killing is 
not the product of TV or "Satanic Messages in Rock & Roll Music".

The girls liked Mario Lanza and James Mason for God (tm)'s sake.

What it does show is that repression causes emotions to erupt in the 
worst case possible. 

Notice that these school shootings mostly happen in the "Bible Belt" 
where the question remains the same as it was in Christchurch in 1954; 
"Why here?"

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.6 ---------------

From: Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@herald.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: No thanks necessary/kate_mel list
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:55:45 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hello Heavenly Friends--

Ava wrote:

>I just have to say thank you, thank you, thank you to Sharon for her
clear and
>eloquent explaination of the events that caused this debate (her view
of them,
>at least).
You're very welcome, Ava (and everyone else who wrote to me privately).
I'm glad 
my remarks were helpful.
 
>I think in the course of arguing a lot of the facts got misconstrued
or the 
>different sides were not able to make clear the point they were trying
to get 
>across to the other side.
An excellent observation. I suspect this may be the one instance when
receiving 
posts in the digest format (as I do) was advantageous to following the
dialogue.  
I usually feel like I'm a few steps behind the discussion! 

I know there are a few people here who are also members of the
kate_mel_fans 
mailing list...are you receiving posts? I haven't seen any in several
days...and 
one would think it would be "hopping" in the wake of "Ever After"
arriving in 
theaters. I plan to see it this weekend, btw! It's been way too long
since 
Marvelous Mel last appeared on the big screen! I just hope my heart can
take it!

Best regards,
Sharon
********************************************************************************

"...how sad it is for other people that they cannot appreciate our
genius."

                                                   -Heavenly Creatures


Sharon A. Bowker
sbowker1@purdue.edu
Lafayette, Indiana, USA




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.7 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Just realized.....
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 14:03:19 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Marie Braden wrote:

>we know more now about how to "avoid getting caught",

No we don't! We just assume (as Pauline and Juliet did) that we can 
outsmart others.

These kids got caught didn't they? So much for "avoiding".

The defense rests.



(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.8 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Silhouette
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 14:07:04 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Marie Braden wrote:

>particularly the silhouette in the door one, where
>you were like waving your arms.....

Actually, the silhouette in the staircase is Graham, a member of the
crew 
who was my double in a couple of shots, like when the girls back away 
from me in the alleyway and I show up behind them. 

You see his shadow but as the girls slam the door, only find me waiting 
for them.

I am Mel's shadow on the wall in the bedroom before the kiss.


(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.9 ---------------

From: "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@nass.usda.gov>
Subject: Toodaloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 14:14:26 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Hello,

Well, I've been thinking of doing this for the past month or so and
I've finally
decided to go ahead and unsubscribe from this list. (Thank goodness I
know how
to do it, so don't worry, there won't be any "unsubscribe" requests
from me.)
The recent flaming war pissed me off royally, as I felt that everyone
was just
misunderstanding each other..sometimes on purpose. Then today I stated
an
opinion and three or four responses were made about it, totally
discounting it
because it didn't apply to every similar situation on the planet.

There's way too much off topic discussion for me, and let's be
realistic. How
much discussion can you get from a single movie that's 4 years old?
Especially
when members who've been on the list longer than others get irritated
when a
subject is re-introduced by newer members. In short, many of you are
quite rude.

It's also kind of scary that so many people make this film into a
star-crossed
lovers sort of thing when it's really about the dangers of
co-dependence (and
yes, artistic repression, I will admit that.)

I still love the film and always will, but I think my discussion days
are done.

Laurin, I send you my regards as you were one of the few rational
people I can
remember by name, and Jean, your inside information was very
interesting.
Although, Jean, you insulted two of my favorite things in one week-Twin
Peaks
and Stephen King. But I can forgive you that. You weren't wrong in
either case.
;^)

So, toodaloo all you Creatures, the Heavenly and not-so-heavenly.

-Brandi M. Smith^^




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.10 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: OT: TV and satanic messages  (was: just realizing)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:49:02 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808141755.KAA14520@lists1.best.com>

E. Jean Guerin wrote:

> If anything the Parker-Hulme case shows is that this sort of killing
is
> not the product of TV or "Satanic Messages in Rock & Roll Music".

Hmm...you're right about that one. I never thought about it that way...
But why do you think that violence is increasing among young children? I
don't think that this case can be compared with any other murder-case.
There must be a reason and I do think that violence shown on the TV has
something to do with it. FE: About a year ago there were some kids
throwing stones on cars of a bridge. The news and the papers covered the
srory and now there seems to be a whole plague. These people obviously
got the idea from the tv...

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n885 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n886 --------------

    001 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Toodaloo
    002 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Just realized.....
    003 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Silhouette
    004 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - Things for which I can thank the
viewing of this movie
    005 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - Things I ponder when pondering
this movie
    006 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
    007 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - RE: Silhouette
    008 - recurring <recurring@yaho - Re: Toodaloo
    009 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - Re: Things I ponder when
pondering this movie
    010 - StarScully@aol.com        - Quotes and Sigs

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.1 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Toodaloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 19:07:48 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

BRANDI SMITH wrote:

>Although, Jean, you insulted two of my favorite things in one
week-Twin Peaks
>and Stephen King. But I can forgive you that. You weren't wrong in
either 
>case.

I wasn't insulting Twin Peaks. I was taking a pot-shot at Duchovny
(whom 
I liked in TP). I'm a big fan of TP. I taped all the shows when it 
originally came on and took the time to edit out the commercials as it 
was airing (I have commercials on only one or two episodes). 

As for King, well, the dude acted like a real jerk when he came to the 
cinema I was running. I had stories all day about him from people who 
didn't recognize him (He had a heavy beard). They all ended with "What
an 
asshole!" To which I replied "That asshole is Stephen King". The 
cashier's response was "I don't care who he is , he's a jerk!" and the 
candy girl picked up her dog-eared copy of "It!" from under her counter 
and simply said "I don't think I want to finish this anymore".

Let's just say that that part he plays in "Creepshow" wasn't acting.
The 
man IS Jordy Verril.

Plus any X-phile I spoke to HATED that damn killer doll episode.

Have a good one.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.2 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Just realized.....
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:34:11 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <199808141759.KAA17748@lists1.best.com>

 wrote:
>
> >we know more now about how to "avoid getting caught",
>
> No we don't! We just assume (as Pauline and Juliet did) that we can
> outsmart others.
>
> These kids got caught didn't they? So much for "avoiding".
>
> The defense rests.
I see your point.  Doesn't mean I agree with you, but I see your point.
(That I am being as naive as they were in thinking that I could plan it
out
better)



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.3 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Silhouette
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:34:12 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <199808141803.LAA20681@lists1.best.com>


> Actually, the silhouette in the staircase is Graham, a member of the
crew
> who was my double in a couple of shots, like when the girls back away
> from me in the alleyway and I show up behind them.
>
> You see his shadow but as the girls slam the door, only find me
waiting
> for them.
>
> I am Mel's shadow on the wall in the bedroom before the kiss.
Bummer.  For some reason the arm-waving just makes me giggle.



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.4 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: Things for which I can thank the viewing of this movie
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:34:09 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

*Introduced me to some opera that I truly enjoy.
*Gave me *yet another* true crime case to obsess about for a while, one
with
which I was unfamiliar.
*Kate and Melanie. 'Nuff said.
*Whenever I want to get a cold chill up my back, all I have to do is
think
about the scene in the tea shop ("Go ahead, Mum, treat yourself.)Side
note:
Does anyone know if the FAQ mentions this ONE instance where she calls
Honora Mum?  I know it mentions that "Mummy" is only used when they come
back screaming.  And this isn't as trivial a matter as it may seem.  For
example, in The Stranger, by Albert Camus, the version I have makes a
big
deal about what is meant by the translation of the first line as "Mama
died
today." vs. the traditional translation "Mother died today."
*Hours and hours of "pure enjoyment"
*Some really great lines
*I admit, I love the "Murray O'Lanza" scene



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.5 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: Things I ponder when pondering this movie
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:43:56 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

When I think about HC in a reflective, mulling sort of way, these are a
few
of the things I think about--curious to know other folks' thoughts on
the
matters.
*The fact that Pauline was bulimic. Doesn't that, in and of itself,
indicate
some deeper problems?
*I agree with the author of the FAQ who says that a great deal of the
motivations are explained by a proper understanding of the time
line.....which gives rise to the thought of...if this had happened at a
different point, would it have changed things?
*The Night with the Saints is one of the most erotic scenes I have ever
seen
in a movie--and it all has to do with the look of pleased discovery on
Juliet's face....that expression just slays me.
*It would be very interesting to know more about the real Honora's
character, and again, I think it would explain a lot of what happened.
*Did they really cross over into a "fourth world" or was it merely a
symbol
for something else.  Anne Perry has made much of the fact that parts of
Pauline's diary were misconstrued due to wordplay.....
*Jean should REALLY take himself more seriously.  He did wonderful work
in
this movie, which looked like FUN to do, no less.  Sure, it might be a
happy
coincidence that he resembles IT, but cool.  It gave him a faboo
opportunity.




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.6 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 19:47:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

lyric wrote:

>Hmm...you're right about that one. I never thought about it that way...
>But why do you think that violence is increasing among young children?

Is it really increasing? Or are we just being made more aware of it? 
There is a science to reading the news. The number of REPORTED cases
are 
up.

>I don't think that this case can be compared with any other
murder-case.
>There must be a reason and I do think that violence shown on the TV has
>something to do with it.

Statistics on crime PER CAPITA has actually decreased. However, the 
technology to report those crimes has improved.

A good example of that is domestic violence. It hasn't really increased 
but more victims are speaking out.

> FE: About a year ago there were some kids
>throwing stones on cars of a bridge.

What a good example! This was the principle argument againt freeway 
overpasses in the fifties.

(Then)Senator Lyndon Banes Johnson used the following metaphor when 
debating the importance of winning a space race with the Russians: "If
we 
let the Russians gain the high ground of space they'll be dropping 
A-bombs on us LIKE ROCKS FROM A HIGHWAY OVERPASS."

Last year marked the first time YOU were made aware of this age-old 
practice.

> The news and the papers covered the
>srory and now there seems to be a whole plague. These people obviously
>got the idea from the tv...

What happened is that TV reporters notice how that got ratings and 
attention and they start combing through police reports for any story 
that continues on that momentum.

Before TV, it was radio, before that comic books, movies and pulp
novels. 

What I find funny is that so may killings are comitted each year in the 
name of Jesus and God (Heck! Charles Manson claims to be Jesus Christ) 
and yet no one wants to censor the Bible.

TV is always an easy scapegoat. What should be taught in school is 
media-litteracy. 

TV also gets blamed by the very parents who use it as a babysitter. 

As for the kids who shot their classmates, I think giving these kids
guns 
to play with was more of a factor than South Park! 

There was a panic in Europe a couple of years ago. Boys who kicked a 
young girl to death blamed what they did on TV. In the wake of that 
revelation The Power Rangers got yanked off the air in many countries 
including Canada. (The ban still stands over here) However, The PR were 
back on the air the following week when one of the kids said "We were 
playing (Teenage Mutant Ninja) Turtles!". Even then, you'd have to find 
an episode where the Turtles gang up on someone and kick'em to death to 
clearly establish a connection. There is no such behavior exhibited in 
TMNT.


(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.7 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Silhouette
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 19:52:10 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Marie Braden wrote:

>Actually, the silhouette in the staircase is Graham, 

>Bummer.  For some reason the arm-waving just makes me giggle.

Graham did that anyway. I'm sure he'd be happy to read this (wherever
he 
is).
I have a bit of video of Graham and me standing shoulder to shoulder. I 
dubbed us "The Orson Brothers" and we danced to "Me and my Shadow".


(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.8 ---------------

From: recurring <recurring@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Toodaloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:56:31 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


When people leave lists because of the reasons Brandi stated, there is
no word to express it but sort of sighing. I haven't been on the list
long, and despite the off topic conversations I have found the list
really worthwhile. However, I cannot see what it would be like for
those who've been here since the start. 

I guess that there must be a time when people stand and take leave. So
farewell fellow Creature. It's been a pleasure reading your posts. :)

Regards, 

Jane Fribit


>>>--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n885.9 ---------------
From: "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@nass.usda.gov>Subject: Toodaloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 14:14:26 -0500MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCIIContent-Transfer-Encoding:
7bitHello,
Well, I've been thinking of doing this for the past month or so
andI've finally
decided to go ahead and unsubscribe from this list. (Thank goodness
Iknow how
to do it, so don't worry, there won't be any "unsubscribe"
requestsfrom me.)
The recent flaming war pissed me off royally, as I felt that everyone
was just
misunderstanding each other..sometimes on purpose. Then today I stated
an
opinion and three or four responses were made about it, totally
discounting it
because it didn't apply to every similar situation on the planet.
There's way too much off topic discussion for me, and let's
berealistic. How
much discussion can you get from a single movie that's 4 years
old?Especially
when members who've been on the list longer than others get
irritatedwhen a
subject is re-introduced by newer members. In short, many of you
arequite rude.
It's also kind of scary that so many people make this film into
astar-crossed
lovers sort of thing when it's really about the dangers
ofco-dependence (and
yes, artistic repression, I will admit that.)
I still love the film and always will, but I think my discussion
daysare done.
Laurin, I send you my regards as you were one of the few
rationalpeople I can
remember by name, and Jean, your inside information was veryinteresting.
Although, Jean, you insulted two of my favorite things in one
week-TwinPeaks
and Stephen King. But I can forgive you that. You weren't wrong
ineither case.
;^)So, toodaloo all you Creatures, the Heavenly and not-so-heavenly.
-Brandi M. Smith^^
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.9 ---------------

From: mailcall <mailcall@bluemarble.net>
Subject: Re: Things I ponder when pondering this movie
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:33:16 -0500 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199808142335.QAA15775@lists1.best.com>

i always thought pauline was bulimic because she wanted to be thin like
juliet. you know the press called her dumpy. i bet she was a little
plump
and perceived herself as having a weight problem. her mom (in the diary)
wants for her to *gain* weight but some mothers think you should be a
little chubby.

                    --==** melanthe alexian **==--
                      ...she just slipped away...



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n886.10 ---------------

From: StarScully@aol.com
Subject: Quotes and Sigs
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:46:10 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Since everyone on here always has some little quote or signature from
HC at
the end of their post I'm going to put my favorite line from the movie
as
well...

"bwah"  :::that funny noise that jean made when he scares the grrls:::: 
I don't know why, but that just cracks me up. 
 
*janel*


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n886 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n887 --------------

    001 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - More at Fault
    002 - Shania610@aol.com         - Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
    003 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Things I ponder when
pondering this movie
    004 - "Silvia Merchant" <kdlang - hi!!!
    005 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - the "Murray O'Lanza" scene
    006 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
    007 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: the "Murray O'Lanza" scene
    008 - Aileen Dayao <n9343700@ga - Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
    009 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Re: More at Fault
    010 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - Re: OT: TV and satanic messages

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.1 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: More at Fault
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:06:39 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am not sure if this topic was ver discussed, or maybe I should say in
a more
recent time.  But I know there are some new people and i would be
interested
in hearing opinions about who everyone believes was more at fault for
the
death of Honora Parker.  And i do not mean the actual act, i mean from
the
time Pauline and Juliet met, up to and including the murder itself.  It
is a
time when we could all sort of play psychologist, but i am kind of
curious as
I am on other lists not specifically about HC, but where HC is brought
up and
where this topic is discussed,a nd sometimes i wonder of it is the same
HC,
but then again I tend to think those people aren't as into the film or
the
actual story behind it as we creatires are.  So please any one who has
and
opinion on this, i would love to hear it.

Jennifer


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.2 ---------------

From: Shania610@aol.com
Subject: Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:21:52 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/11/98 11:23:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
orson@videotron.ca writes:

<< I won't! I didn't! And I have the distinction of being the first
male 
 actor in history to play in a lesbian love scene.
 
 (And when I made that joke on the set, Melanie asked me "Jean, do you 
 want to get shot in the head?")
  >>


LOL!!! I just had to say, Jean, you made my day. it was my last day at
work
and i am still not totally happy with leaving...thanks!!

karen


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.3 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Things I ponder when pondering this movie
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:48:27 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <199808150235.TAA00205@lists1.best.com>



> i always thought pauline was bulimic because she wanted to be thin
like
> juliet. you know the press called her dumpy. i bet she was a little
plump
> and perceived herself as having a weight problem. her mom (in the
diary)
> wants for her to *gain* weight but some mothers think you should be a
> little chubby.
Good point, but there is the fact that there was reference to
vomiting--perhaps to be thin like Juliet, perhaps because of a
self-destructive urge, perhaps because there was something even darker
in
that family that we don't know about.....the possibilities are really
endless.  Hey, it could even have been due to the stress she was under
at
the thought of seperation from Juliet.



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.4 ---------------

From: "Silvia Merchant" <kdlanglvr@hotmail.com>
Subject: hi!!!
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:08:06 PDT
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi! I just recently joined up, and I want to throw in a lil "hi" note
to 
everyone on the list. I'm new to the list my name is Silvia Merchant
and 
I love Heavenly Creatures!!! I just LOVED Pauline and Juliet! They were 
my favourite characters! It's by far my favorite movie of all time. Oh 
well, hope to get ta know everyone soon!

Hugs&Kisses,
Silvia Merchant

"I'm going to the 4th world! It's sort of like Heaven, only better 
because there aren't any christians!"--Juliet Hulme

"I don't need to tell people- they *know* I'm gay"-K.D. Lang

"I want to be recognized as a professional singer, not a professional 
lesbian."-K.D. Lang


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.5 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: the "Murray O'Lanza" scene
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:24:44 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808142325.QAA07486@lists1.best.com>

Hi all,

I already posted this to Jeroen a while ago, but Marie's email brought
it back to my mind. I recently bought a HC-tape with Dutch subtitles and
some of them really are hilarious. 
Besides a few typos (they translated Murray O'Lanza in Mari O'Lanza and
Diello was called Dielo) they confused me with a fwe things.

* In the Murray O'Lanza scene Pauline says: "Stop it, You're spoiling
it." When first seeing this film I was quite sure she was talking about
the music. But the subtitles translated it as if she was angry because
the fish was tainting...
Did I misunderstand this scene?

* I might have heard this one wrong... When Laurie is waiting on a chair
for Pauline to come out of the bathroom, I believe she says: "It won't
be a moment" as 'It might take a while'. The subitles translated it into
"Just a moment." 
Since English is not my native language, this one could be my mistake.

Could someone clear this up for me? Thanks... (-:

Take care,
Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.6 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:00:08 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808142345.QAA24483@lists1.best.com>

E. Jean Guerin wrote:

> Is it really increasing? Or are we just being made more aware of it?
> There is a science to reading the news. The number of REPORTED cases
are
> up.

I do think it's increasing. Radio, papers and TV have been here for
quite a while now, and ten years ago, there weren't as many murdurous
children as nowadays...

> What a good example! This was the principle argument againt freeway
> overpasses in the fifties.
> Last year marked the first time YOU were made aware of this age-old
> practice.

I heard from it before but it wasn't really a problem. People threw
little things, or spitted (gross)...now they manage to break carwindows
with big rocks...

> What I find funny is that so may killings are comitted each year in
the
> name of Jesus and God (Heck! Charles Manson claims to be Jesus Christ)
> and yet no one wants to censor the Bible.

I don't know of any kid (and that's what we were talking about here)
that killed because of something he/she read in the bible. The bible has
been and is still used as an excuse for wars, not for murders by
teenagers.

Take care,
Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.7 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: the "Murray O'Lanza" scene
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:23:55 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <199808150937.CAA16697@lists1.best.com>


>
> * In the Murray O'Lanza scene Pauline says: "Stop it, You're spoiling
> it." When first seeing this film I was quite sure she was talking
about
> the music. But the subtitles translated it as if she was angry because
> the fish was tainting...
> Did I misunderstand this scene?
I would have thought that she was MORE angry that her father was
spoiling
the song....so I think that the translators maybe weren't paying too
much
attention to the context.



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.8 ---------------

From: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:33:37 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199808150423.VAA01599@lists1.best.com>

> In a message dated 8/11/98 11:23:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
> orson@videotron.ca writes:
> 
> << I won't! I didn't! And I have the distinction of being the first
male 
>  actor in history to play in a lesbian love scene.
>  
>  (And when I made that joke on the set, Melanie asked me "Jean, do
you 
>  want to get shot in the head?")
>   >>

Hi! I enjoy reading your anecdotes re- your experiences on set of HC..
and
I wondered if you had a full account or whatever of these experiences?..


Carter's Dreams __o    take care- justmeeh.. Aileen.
   Keeper     _`\<,_ mailto:n9343700@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
 .  .  .  .  (*)/ (*) 
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~adayao/index.html



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.9 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>
Subject: Re: More at Fault
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:04:53 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808150307.UAA19493@lists1.best.com>

> I am not sure if this topic was ver discussed, or maybe I should say
in a more
> recent time.  But I know there are some new people and i would be
interested
> in hearing opinions about who everyone believes was more at fault for
the
> death of Honora Parker.

I may have already said something about it, but I think it's an
interesting question. IMHO, at least from what the movie shows, things
started to change from an ordinary friendship to something more
complicated after Juliet recovered from TB. Even at the sanatorium, the
first time anything can be hinted is when Honora looks at the girls with
a feeling of disapproval.

Soon after that, Henry Hulme talks to Honora and Herbert about Pauline's
behaviour (because of course it would never be HIS daughter) and
convinces them to take her to Dr. Bennett. THEN begins the heavy
pressure on the girls (that is, especially on Pauline) to be apart. And
if anyone put apart two people who love each other (in the broader
sense, I mean!) they'll do anything on earth to be together again.

The thing is that the girls trusted Henry, and he was the one who wanted
them to be separated, since he guided Honora (and the naive Herbert),
and Hilda proved to be the only one that didn't care so much about it as
he did. And of course Peter's narrative technique plays a good part on
that, with all that lightning and thunders when focusing on Henry.

That could be, then, the start of the pressure that would lead Pauline
to plan the moider, together of course with the crisis on her own
relationship with her mother. Opinions anyone?

:*
Juliana.



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n887.10 ---------------

From: mailcall <mailcall@bluemarble.net>
Subject: Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:12:37 -0500 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199808150937.CAA16758@lists1.best.com>

lyric, if you wanted to go with that view, you could say that clinton is
one of the first presidents to have an affair. it was never reported in
the
press about what fdr (or MRS. fdr) or jack kennedy did, but now if a
public
official even smiles at a pretty girl, it's all over the tube.  this is
only one example. the news media used to have a lot of etiquettes and
guidelines for what was proper, that they no longer have. things have
changed for a lot of reasons. 

                    --==** melanthe alexian **==--
                      ...she just slipped away...



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n887 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n888 --------------

    001 - osprey <amanda@ospreydesi - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n887
    002 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
    003 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
    004 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
    005 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: hi!!!
    006 - Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@h - Toodaloo
    007 - Christy Price <christy@ty - Henry Hulme
    008 - recurring <recurring@yaho - Re: More At Fault (long)
    009 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: More At Fault (long)
    010 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Juliet's part and social
differences

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.1 ---------------

From: osprey <amanda@ospreydesign.com>
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n887
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 98 12:21:54 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>Murray O'Lanza

Are you serious?  If not, then I don't get the joke.

Amanda


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.2 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 98 12:28:01 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

lyric wrote:

>I don't know of any kid (and that's what we were talking about here)
>that killed because of something he/she read in the bible.

It's not something that is widely reported (the media prefers angel 
sightings) and if it is satanism gets the blame but satanism is a by 
product of Christianity. You may not be rooting for the same team but
you 
are adopting the same set of beliefs. 

What I am talking about here is a real phenomenon known as "the media 
effect" whereas media has made people more aware of certain things even 
though they went on all the time.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.3 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 98 12:32:06 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Aileen Dayao wrote:

>Hi! I enjoy reading your anecdotes re- your experiences on set of HC..
and
>I wondered if you had a full account or whatever of these
experiences?..

A couple of recollections have been archived in Bryan's mailing list 
archives and Adam's site had some of my anecdotes up for a bit. 

If I can get ahead of this current wave of "one-thing-after-another", I 
should put it all up on my website (I have space but no tima at all to 
work on it).

I should be able to find the time in early fall.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.4 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: OT: TV and satanic messages
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 98 12:39:03 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

mailcall wrote:

>the news media used to have a lot of etiquettes and
>guidelines for what was proper

Actually, when HC came out Peter said "If you think tabloid journalism
is 
bad today, you should see what they were like then". He was himself 
shocked in the course of researching HC by the tone used in reporting
the 
case. The technology has improved as did the accessibility of
information 
but the ethics of yellow journalism have always been crappy. In fact, 
they used to be worse!!!

"You provide the pictures- I'll provide the war"- William Randolph
Hearst

In fact, the media is more cautious than it ever was: Look at how it
uses 
words like "alleged" or "reported". Look at how many news reports dance 
around the word "sperm" when describing the "DNA stain" on Lewinski's 
dress.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.5 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: hi!!!
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:40:37 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808150809.BAA03822@lists1.best.com>

Silvia Merchant wrote:
> 
> Hi! I just recently joined up, and I want to throw in a lil "hi" note
to
> everyone on the list. I'm new to the list my name is Silvia Merchant
and
> I love Heavenly Creatures!!! I just LOVED Pauline and Juliet! They
were
> my favourite characters! It's by far my favorite movie of all time. Oh
> well, hope to get ta know everyone soon!

A hi back to ya and welcome to the list! I haven't been on this list for
too long, but so far I enjoyed meeting all the fellow creatures! (-: 

Take care,
Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.6 ---------------

From: Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@herald.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Toodaloo
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:59:04 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hello Heavenly Friends,

I was very sorry to hear that Brandi was giving up on us...especially
since 
things seem to be settling down a bit.

>From: "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@nass.usda.gov>
>The recent flaming war pissed me off royally, as I felt that everyone
was just
>misunderstanding each other..sometimes on purpose. Then today I stated
an
>opinion and three or four responses were made about it, totally
discounting it
>because it didn't apply to every similar situation on the planet.

I suspect we are just a hyper-sensitive bunch...which makes sense since
we are 
all so powerfully moved by HC for one reason or another. Unfortunately, 
electronic mail...precisely because it is meant to be "quick and
dirty"...does 
not allow for much in the way of nuance.

>There's way too much off topic discussion for me, 
This...as we've recently shed blood, sweat and tears to establish...is
a matter 
of opinion.

>How much discussion can you get from a single movie that's 4 years
old? 
I, for one, shall never tire of talking about it. And in my part of the 
world...hardly anyone has seen this film. It doesn't matter how long
ago a movie 
was made if you're talking to someone who has just recently seen it for
the 
first time.

>Especially when members who've been on the list longer than others get 
>irritated when a subject is re-introduced by newer members.
I haven't noticed this to be the case at all. New members always seem
to give 
the list a major shot in the arm with their enthusiasm. I'm delighted
whenever 
someone new turns up...and have seen several subjects re-hashed in new
and 
interesting ways.

>In short, many of you are quite rude.
But is rudeness implied by the writer...or is it inferred by the
reader? It's 
that nuance thing again. When and if my feelings ever get hurt, I tend
to give 
the writer the benefit of the doubt.

>It's also kind of scary that so many people make this film into a
star-crossed
>lovers sort of thing when it's really about the dangers of
co-dependence (and
>yes, artistic repression, I will admit that.)
This is always going to be a matter of interpretation...and isn't it
wonderful 
that there are so many different ways to "see" this film?

Best regards,
Sharon
********************************************************************************

"...how sad it is for other people that they cannot appreciate our
genius."

                                                   -Heavenly Creatures


Sharon A. Bowker
sbowker1@purdue.edu
Lafayette, Indiana, USA

   



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.7 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: Henry Hulme
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:54:19 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Juliana wrote:
 "The thing is that the girls trusted Henry, and he was the one who
wanted
them to be separated"

That's the part that got me, well one of the things, about the movie,
how the girls trusted Henry
and how Pauline put him up on this pedastal (while being embarrased of
her own parents) and it
was Henry that was the first to conspire to separate the two girls.  I
kinda felt sorry for Honora the way Pauline treated her (yes, I know
that she wanted the girls separated, but she really cared for Pauline
and only wanted her to respect her, she just didn't know how to handle
the way pauline was suddenly acting...of course now we know about
pauline's other sister and all of that and it sheds a whole new light
on the subject). 

--Christy


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.8 ---------------

From: recurring <recurring@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More At Fault (long)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Firstly, I just want to say that although I do not try to any justify
"moiders" or murders, and although I can recognise what Pauline and
Juliet did, I don't really think of them as murderers. I don't know if
I'm saying that from the film I'm getting at that they were insane - I
just think that their friendship was so intense that they weren't
"thinking straight". 

In the film it seems as if everything just goes so fast for both the
characters, especially Pauline but I think that is because the film is
focused more around her than Juliet. But sometimes I sort of wonder
what they would be like thinking alone. I know there are some scenes
with Pauline lying on her bed, or writing in her diary but I don't
think that the film gives me enough understanding of when both the
girls are alone by themselves and everything is sort of slower. 

I don't think that Honora is to blame. That is bizarre in it's self. I
think she was just being the average sympathetic caring mother. The
first time I saw the film and often times after that, there are some
parts where I just want to get in there and tell Honora and Mr Hulme
to just mind their own bloody business. 

I can see that at the start Juliet seems to be the much more dominant
of the two. But then the big swing happens and Pauline turns out to be
the one really calling the shots. I often thought that Pauline had a
more stronger attactment on Juliet because Juliet was more the
outgoing type of the two. But the scene at the hospital when Pauline
is telling Juliet about how John/Nicholas loves her shows that Juliet
feels incredibly strongly for Pauline as well. 

My mother was interested in seeing HC after hearing me talk about for
so long, so she watched it and from the beginning thought that it
would be Mrs Hulme who would be the victim rather than Mrs Rieper
because Juliet was the more outgoing type. I think the thing which
took the swing was Juliet in hospital. It is all so bizarre as a whole. 

I often wonder how accurate the character of Juliet is, as I think
Peter Jackson and Francis Welsh would have only gone by interviews and
Pauline's view in her diary... so then I think what would it have been
like if Juliet's diaries were found and Paulines had be destroyed.
That is of course if Juliet really had kept any diaries.

But.. thanks for reading.

Regards,

Jane

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.9 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: More At Fault (long)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:36:44 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes this brings up that point of view thing that you wish we were
omicient in
this film.  We only have one scene I believe where we see Juliete,
without
Pauline as a main fixture.  i mean yes there were the scenes where she
was
going to or fomr Paulines, or was just lying in her ebd alone, but
other than
that there is only the scene where Juliet finds here mother in bed with
Bill.
IN the other scenes Pauline is always there.  It is much different
where when
we are at Pauline's we see her house and her environment much more
closly, and
without Juliet.  I know that this is probably because we know more about
Pauline's life without Juliet because it was pauls diaries, but I
always tend
to wish what this film would have looked like through the eyes of
Juliet not
Pauline.  That would be interesting.  Juliet seemed more involved with
the
Fourth world and the imaginary world and she brought Pauline into that.
 And
for being such an outgoing girl, we know less of here than we do of
Pauline.

Jennifer 


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n888.10 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>
Subject: Juliet's part and social differences
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:06:35 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808160137.SAA12689@lists1.best.com>

> It is much different where when
> we are at Pauline's we see her house and her environment much more
closly, and
> without Juliet.  I know that this is probably because we know more
about
> Pauline's life without Juliet because it was pauls diaries, but I
always tend
> to wish what this film would have looked like through the eyes of
Juliet not
> Pauline.  

And yet, even with our knowledge of Pauline's point of view, compared to
Juliet's, it's so cruel that the social differences between them still
played a heavy part. I mean, we tend to think that Juliet is the
strongest one also because Paul was fascinated with the Hulmes'
lifestyle and let herself be guided many times by that, with the
illusion that she could enter that world (even taking Henry as her
"father"). The story is Pauline's, the pressure was on her most of the
time, 'cos Juliet was only threatened at first by her physical condition
and her parents' divorce.

But the stillness of their social status still remained (social
determinism? Aaaaah!!), Juliet became famous and managed to do what she
wanted to, and Pauline still remained on lower class standards. And, it
can be maybe a coincidence, but that reflected (at least until now) on
the careers of both Kate and Mel...

Does this make any sense at all?

:*
Juliana.


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n888 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n889 --------------

    001 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: Juliet's part and social
differences
    002 - Aileen Dayao <n9343700@ga - Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
    003 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)  - hc all over again
    004 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: More At Fault (long)
    005 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: More At Fault (long)
    006 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Juliet's part and social
differences
    007 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Juliet's part and social
differences
    008 - Aileen Dayao <n9343700@ga - OT: McDonalds (fwd)
    009 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: More At Fault (long)

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.1 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: Juliet's part and social differences
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:17:17 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-15 22:15:15 EDT, you write:

<< But the stillness of their social status still remained (social
 determinism? Aaaaah!!), Juliet became famous and managed to do what she
 wanted to, and Pauline still remained on lower class standards. And, it
 can be maybe a coincidence, but that reflected (at least until now) on
 the careers of both Kate and Mel...
 
 Does this make any sense at all? >>


I think you are tryiong to say that Juliet was considered Socially
higher than
Pauline when they were teenages and commited this cat.  They both went
to
prison for pretty much the same time.  when Juliet was released, she
continued
to seek here goal of fame as a writer or something that would shine a
light on
here positivly.  she remained in a high social status.  (How many
convicted
murderes do you know that can get a passport and a Visa to get into and
live
and work in the USA ????)  And that Kate Winslet who played Juliet, has
had
continued sucess, often, since her role in HC.

whereas on the other side, there was Pauline who was considered socially
lower.  She went to prison, and even though she attained her degrees
while in
prison, did not acculate to any higher social standard than she was
before
prison.  she remaisn such in her current lifestyle as Hilary Nathan. 
there is
Melanie Lynskey, who since HC has not been as sucessful as her co star
Kate,
and is only just getting into having a decenbt role since HC.

Is that the pararell you are speaking of ??  I see it, and it could be
considered coincidence, or also the fact that Kate's family has a lot
more
acting in her backsground and it is something Kate has been intent on
doing
where as Melanie, was picked out of a group because of her uncanny
resemblance
to the real pauline.  Her life's direction was changed after HC, when
it was
because of that role she chose to do something i believe she was born
to do.
Also the age difference, Melanie being only 15, 16 at the time of
shooting HC
and Kate being an adult (legally) at 17-18, may also have some bearing
on the
paths they took following HC.

Anyway, just a possibility.  Any other comments???

Jennifer



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.2 ---------------

From: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:32:18 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199808151629.JAA26143@lists1.best.com>

> >Hi! I enjoy reading your anecdotes re- your experiences on set of
HC.. and
> >I wondered if you had a full account or whatever of these
experiences?..
> 
> A couple of recollections have been archived in Bryan's mailing list 
> archives and Adam's site had some of my anecdotes up for a bit. 
> 
> If I can get ahead of this current wave of "one-thing-after-another",
I 
> should put it all up on my website (I have space but no tima at all
to 
> work on it).
> 
> I should be able to find the time in early fall.

re- Jean's accounts of his experiences on HC..
Has anyone got copies of this? I do'nt get the chance to browse the 'net
much and it's easier for meeh to get in the INBOX *grin**

Carter's Dreams __o    take care- justmeeh.. Aileen.
   Keeper     _`\<,_ mailto:n9343700@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
 .  .  .  .  (*)/ (*) 
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~adayao/index.html



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.3 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)
Subject: hc all over again
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:51:39 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Thought i'd post some similarities between HC and ALL OVER ME:

1] butterflies in claude's room (on the pillow cases, on the mirror,
on the table beside her bed);

2] The scene where claude and ellen lie down in the street looks
frightfully similar to HC's rolling in the leaves scene;

3] The scene where ellen is sitting on top of claude and kisses her
looks like the love scene in HC.  Also ellen's hair looks a lot like
juliet's in that scene;

4] Claudia wants to be called claude, like pauline wants to be called
paul.

--
!jeroen - the netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME  hEAVENLY CREATURES  jUDE  lEON  nBK


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.4 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: More At Fault (long)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 98 19:16:19 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

recurring wrote:

>I often wonder how accurate the character of Juliet is, as I think
>Peter Jackson and Francis Welsh would have only gone by interviews and
>Pauline's view in her diary...

The character of Juliet has been "toned down" and "made more 
sympathetic". She really wasn't liked by her classmates. Most found her 
arrogant and snotty. According to some, she sort of had Pauline hanging 
on as a lap dog (and enduring her abuse).

This gels with recent inetrviews with Anne Perry where she dismisses 
Pauline as the only girl that stuck around when she was ill. 

The view of Juliet as being less than sympathetic is reflected by many 
people I've met who have inteacted with Anne Perry. I remember when the 
news spread at the Toronto film festival. Someone in the publishing biz
I 
spoke to used the "b word" to describe her.

If anything Peter and Fran did a good job of having people empathize
with 
her.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.5 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: More At Fault (long)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 98 19:23:26 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

IrishEMT12@aol.com wrote:

>Juliet seemed more involved with the
>Fourth world and the imaginary world and she brought Pauline into
that.  And
>for being such an outgoing girl, we know less of here than we do of
Pauline.

Another thing that comes across in interviews is that Pauline took 
Juliet's fantasy world a bit too seriously. 

Anne Perry claims that she had no idea how far this was going until the 
"moider" was proposed. She also alludes to being emotionally
blackmailed 
(Paul was suicidal) into it and, as she put it: "someone was going to
die 
either way".

The fact she could casually dismiss Mrs. reiper as "someone I didn't 
know" shows a bit of Anne Perry's reputed lack of empathy.

In the film, when Paul announces her plan in the tub, you can see 
Juliet's horror and sadness at the realisation that this game was going 
too far.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.6 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Juliet's part and social differences
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 98 19:25:30 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Juliana Bastos wrote:

>with the
>illusion that she could enter that world

The NZ version of the film has a line cut out of the US version that 
explains a lot here:

At the Christmas cottage, when Mrs. Hulme is done combing Paul's hair
she 
looks at the two of them and calls them "my daughter and my foster 
daughter".

Why that line was cut out of the US version, I do not know.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.7 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Juliet's part and social differences
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 98 19:33:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

IrishEMT12@aol.com wrote:

>there is
>Melanie Lynskey, who since HC has not been as sucessful as her co star
Kate,
>and is only just getting into having a decenbt role since HC.

That's because Kate had plenty of previous acting experience (stage and 
TV), whereas Mel was really discovered by Fran Walsh, as I was!

Mel and I have to litterally build careers from scratch, while Kate had 
years on both of us. 

Mel gave a great performance but she has to prove she can act. There is
a 
subtle difference between being "right for the part" and "able to play 
anything".  It's just a matter of time before she gets up there. She
has 
raw talent and is now getting to learn technique.

I did an ok OW but I have to prove I can play something else. That'll 
take forever at this rate :) 



(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.8 ---------------

From: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: OT: McDonalds (fwd)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:24:31 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



Carter's Dreams __o    take care- justmeeh.. Aileen.
   Keeper     _`\<,_ mailto:n9343700@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
 .  .  .  .  (*)/ (*) 
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~adayao/index.html

---------- Forwarded message ----------

There was a small item in the Sydney Morning Herald yesterday:

"Try to buy before you steal".

A would be thief was left with nothing more than an empty feeling
yesterday when a counter server at McDonalds told him he couldn't rob
the restaurant without buying something.

Eager to oblige, the intruder searched his pockets but could find only
30c - the price of an ice-cream.  The counter assistant hadn't
experienced such a confrontation, so he went looking for the manager.

But the frustrated intruder apparently changed his mind and fled empty
handed.

He had run into the Circular Quay store shortly before 10am, produced a
knife and demanded money, police said.



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n889.9 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: More At Fault (long)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:00:28 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-16 19:27:41 EDT, you write:

<< In the film, when Paul announces her plan in the tub, you can see 
 Juliet's horror and sadness at the realisation that this game was
going 
 too far. >>


"People die, ahy'vryday."  PR HC

Jennifer 


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n889 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n890 --------------

    001 - Aileen Dayao <n9343700@ga - Just A Note To Say Bye-eee!
    002 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: hc all over again
    003 - Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@h - Wrong mother
    004 - Rosedwson4@aol.com        - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n889
    005 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - hello?
    006 - StarScully@aol.com        - Re: hc all over again
    007 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)  - Re: hc all over again
    008 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: hc all over again
    009 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Conservative US Culture
    010 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Conservative US Culture

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.1 ---------------

From: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Just A Note To Say Bye-eee!
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:32:39 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


I'm unsubscribing and just wanted to give a note to say adieu! For the
most part =)) I've found the notes and insights I've read on this list
to
be insightful, etc.... Wishing everyone here well =))

Carter's Dreams __o    take care- justmeeh.. Aileen.
   Keeper     _`\<,_ mailto:n9343700@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
 .  .  .  .  (*)/ (*) 
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~adayao/index.html



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.2 ---------------

From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: hc all over again
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:50:33 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808161353.GAA26154@lists1.best.com>

I'm trying to find All Over Me in Blockbuster but they don't have it!
Pain.  I also ordered de HC Laserdisc and they answered me that by now
is out of stock... major pain...

Sorry, I just had to spit it out.
Thanks creatures!!

By the way Jeroen, the videocassette just arrived!! I need now someone
able to transfer it from pal to ntsc. THANK YOU! :)

Thanks for reading

Jose Antonio
-- 
------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                      
                     
| 
|       Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca.     | 
|        The bigger the head, the bigger the headache                | 
------------------------------------------------------


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.3 ---------------

From: Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@herald.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Wrong mother
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:55:55 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Jane wrote:

>My mother was interested in seeing HC after hearing me talk about for
>so long, so she watched it and from the beginning thought that it
>would be Mrs Hulme who would be the victim rather than Mrs Rieper
>because Juliet was the more outgoing type.

I have always felt that Hilda Hulme was the more neglectful of the two
mothers, 
but the girls...especially Pauline...clearly saw Honora as the one who
was the 
most threatening to their relationship.

Also...it is interesting to note that while the film portrays Pauline
as the 
driving force behind the murder...the courts saw Juliet as the more
dominant 
personality and her sentence to a regular prison reflected that.
Pauline spent 
most of her incarceration in low-security facilities or borstals
(similar to a 
half-way house in the U.S.) because she was seen a less of a threat to
society.

Best regards,
Sharon
********************************************************************************

"...how sad it is for other people that they cannot appreciate our
genius."

                                                   -Heavenly Creatures


Sharon A. Bowker
sbowker1@purdue.edu
Lafayette, Indiana, USA

   



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.4 ---------------

From: Rosedwson4@aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n889
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:23:49 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-17 00:49:28 EDT, you write:

> The NZ version of the film has a line cut out of the US version that 
>  explains a lot here:
>  
>  At the Christmas cottage, when Mrs. Hulme is done combing Paul's
hair she 
>  looks at the two of them and calls them "my daughter and my foster 
>  daughter".
>  
>  Why that line was cut out of the US version, I do not know.
>  
>  (:^)]
>  
>  

i dont know either! I have both the NZ version and the US
version....and there
are sooo many important things left out of the US version that i just
cant
understand why they took them out... like the fact that jean brought up
about
the "my daughter...and my foster daughter" and how she calls them
borovnian
princesses, or the fact that dr. hulme did not leave his job...he was
fired!
and also some little things that were just cute and shouldnt have been
cut,
like the scene where mr. perry moves in w/ the hulmes...and kate is like
"HELLO.." all mockingly... i just find that absolutely hysterical! and
also at
the tennis match and the girls are drunk and  throw a rock into the
lake and
get those old peoples' pants all wet--i mean thats not a necessary
scene, but
its fun to watch. ok, well i guess thats about it for now.... ill talk
to you
all later@!
love,
Rachel :-) !!!!!


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.5 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: hello?
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:10:21 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808150809.BAA03822@lists1.best.com>

Why's everyone so quiet all of a sudden? Or is there just something
wrong
with my addy? If you al have been writing a lot over the weekend and I
just
didn't receive all the messages, could someone please write to
m.hautmann@wxs.nl and let me know?
Thanx a lot,
Marloes



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.6 ---------------

From: StarScully@aol.com
Subject: Re: hc all over again
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:28:15 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-17 03:48:15 EDT, you write:

<< I'm trying to find All Over Me in Blockbuster but they don't have
it! >>

I doubt it any major movie chain (Blockbuster, Moovies, or Hollywood
Video)
would carry a movie like this because most movies that are of the
"indie" type
hardly show up on their shelves.  I still haven't seen AOM, but I am
going to
purchase it at a store downtown from where I live where they sell
movies like
these.  So you may have to order it or sumpthin.

*janel*


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.7 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: hc all over again
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:55:11 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199808161353.GAA26154@lists1.best.com>
<199808170743.AAA16277@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199808170743.AAA16277@lists1.best.com>

On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:50:33 -0500, "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo"
<jabad@softtek.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to find All Over Me in Blockbuster but they don't have it!
>Pain.  I also ordered de HC Laserdisc and they answered me that by now
>is out of stock... major pain...

If you have a credit card you can get both discs from
www.kencranes.com.  If you don't, maybe you can get AOM from
www.flf.com, the US distributor.

You should really get AOM, i'm totally in love with that film, and
alison folland of course :)  It's like my first weeks of HC, i can't
stop watching it!  I won't say it's a better film, but it's at least
just as good.

>By the way Jeroen, the videocassette just arrived!! I need now someone
>able to transfer it from pal to ntsc. THANK YOU! :)

Wow, that took like what, 2 months?  Oh well, at least you got it.

--
!jeroen - the netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME  hEAVENLY CREATURES  jUDE  lEON  nBK


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.8 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: hc all over again
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:24:26 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-17 14:41:59 EDT, you write:

<< I doubt it any major movie chain (Blockbuster, Moovies, or Hollywood
Video)
 would carry a movie like this because most movies that are of the
"indie"
type
 hardly show up on their shelves.  I still haven't seen AOM, but I am
going to
 purchase it at a store downtown from where I live where they sell
movies like
 these.  So you may have to order it or sumpthin. >>


Actually I rented All Over Me and a bunch of other Indie type films
from my
local Hollywood Video, they are a a great source of all types of films.
 I do
not know if that is just my store or maybe you live a more conservative
part
of the world.  Who knows, but it doesan not hurt to call and ask.  I am
however still searching for Beautiful Thing.  No luck there.

Jennifer 


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.9 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Conservative US Culture
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:28:15 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-17 10:42:45 EDT, you write:

<< i dont know either! I have both the NZ version and the US
version....and
there
 are sooo many important things left out of the US version that i just
cant
 understand why they took them out... like the fact that jean brought
up about
 the "my daughter...and my foster daughter" and how she calls them
borovnian
 princesses, or the fact that dr. hulme did not leave his job...he was
fired!
 and also some little things that were just cute and shouldnt have been
cut,
 like the scene where mr. perry moves in w/ the hulmes...and kate is
like
 "HELLO.." all mockingly... i just find that absolutely hysterical! and
also
at
 the tennis match and the girls are drunk and  throw a rock into the
lake and
 get those old peoples' pants all wet--i mean thats not a necessary
scene, but
 its fun to watch. ok, well i guess thats about it for now.... ill talk
to you
>>



CONTRARY to popular belief the USA is a very conservative country that
gets
coddled by our media and government.  We act like we are the most
liberal and
the people who start everything, but in reality we can't have certain
scenes
in US cuts because that would just not fit the "ideal" US film.  we do
not
want to offend anyone in Kansas say. That is the basic belief.  If you
do not
believe me, watch our tv commercials and go to England or France or
anywhere
basically and watch theirs.  It is very different.  Not sure what
Canada is
like, maybe Jean could let us in.  

Jennifer

PS If i offended anyone from Kansas or anywhere else, I apologize.


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n890.10 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Conservative US Culture
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 16:28:56 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

IrishEMT12@aol.com wrote:

>Not sure what Canada is
>like, maybe Jean could let us in.  

I'd venture to say that Canada can be worse at times. If something gets 
recut for US distribution, that's basically what we get and I find
Canada 
to be even more conservative than the US in some places.

Of course both are wide countries so there are some local variations. 
New-York , say, is more liberal than Butte, Montana. The same goes for 
Montreal being more liberal than Toronto. 

There is a city vs country boundary too. Montreal is more liberal than 
the countryside. But Bible thumping rednecks can be found in all rural 
areas from Newfondland to British Columbia. 

(:^)]



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n890 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n891 --------------

    001 - Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@h - Editing decisions
    002 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: Conservative US Culture
    003 - Rosedwson4@aol.com        - re: conservative US.....   :-)
    004 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: hc all over again (long)
    005 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Goodbye!
    006 - Shania610@aol.com         - Re: "Make the bad man stop!"
    007 - Shania610@aol.com         - Re: More At Fault (long)
    008 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - Re: Conservative US Culture OT
    009 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Editing decisions
    010 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Conservative US Culture OT

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.1 ---------------

From: Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@herald.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Editing decisions
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:04:15 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Jennifer wrote:

>CONTRARY to popular belief the USA is a very conservative country that
gets
>coddled by our media and government.  We act like we are the most
liberal and
>the people who start everything, but in reality we can't have certain
scenes
>in US cuts because that would just not fit the "ideal" US film.  we do
not
>want to offend anyone in Kansas say. 

What Jennifer says is certainly true...but I don't think the "Will it
play in 
Kansas?" cryteria really applies to U.S. edit of HC. I've seen the
"Holy Grail" 
as well and none of the excised scenes were particularly graphic or 
violent...save the TB patient coughing up blood in the sanitorium.
Having 
watched both versions back-to-back...it strikes me that the US version
"moves" 
along a bit better...in fact it doesn't really even give you time to
catch your 
breath. I've read that Peter Jackson himself has said that the edits
Miramax 
wanted for U.S. distibution improved rather than detracted from the
film.

On the other hand...the information about Henry Hulme's fight with the 
Canterbury College administration does go a long way in explaining some
of his 
actions. The guy was losing the prestige gig of his career and watching
his 
marriage fall apart...I'm not surprised that he didn't recognize the
seriousness 
of Juliet's situation.

Best regards,
Sharon
********************************************************************************

"...how sad it is for other people that they cannot appreciate our
genius."

                                                   -Heavenly Creatures


Sharon A. Bowker
sbowker1@purdue.edu
Lafayette, Indiana, USA

   



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.2 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: Conservative US Culture
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:14:09 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-17 16:39:51 EDT, you write:

<< There is a city vs country boundary too. Montreal is more liberal
than 
 the countryside. But Bible thumping rednecks can be found in all rural 
 areas from Newfondland to British Columbia. 
  >>


Yes for those who do not know the US, the West Coast and The East Coast
are
pretty LIBERAL when compared to the inner states.  Big cities are
usually
pretty Liberal.  However some more than others.  New York, Philadelphia,
Boston and LA Seattle, and San Francisco (which is probably the most
liberal
city in the USA) are much better than say Atlanta, Chicago, and Dallas,
or
Nashville.

It is always stereotyped that the South is more conservative than the
North,
which is partly true.  The city I live in, San Diego was always
considered the
most conservative city in the State of California, where mostly
everyone is a
republican, the convention is here, and it is a Navy town.  But it is
not bad
at all.  However no where near as free and liberal as san Francisco.  i
suggest a vacation to anyone who has never been there so you may
compare it to
your current city, then you will know!!!!

Jennifer 


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.3 ---------------

From: Rosedwson4@aol.com
Subject: re: conservative US.....   :-)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:17:35 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-17 16:48:43 EDT, you write:

<< CONTRARY to popular belief the USA is a very conservative country
that gets
 coddled by our media and government.  We act like we are the most
liberal and
 the people who start everything, but in reality we can't have certain
scenes
 in US cuts because that would just not fit the "ideal" US film.  we do
not
 want to offend anyone in Kansas say. That is the basic belief.  If you
do not
 believe me, watch our tv commercials and go to England or France or
anywhere
 basically and watch theirs.  It is very different.  Not sure what
Canada is
 like, maybe Jean could let us in.  
 
 Jennifer >>

yeah... i know..ive noticed...i just got back from england 2 days
ago....and
Im from right out of NYC....probably one of the least conservative areas
here....and still, theres a lot of censoring...which actually i find
rather
rediculous...but oh well!~ im going to live in London someday anyways
so its
all good...of course that would be AFTER i am a rich and famous actress
so i
can afford it! everything there is very expensive! ok, well my
non-movie star
meal of order out chinese food is here now... so i guess i have to go.
:-)
talk to you all later!
love,
Rachel :-) !!!!


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.4 ---------------

From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: hc all over again (long)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:08:18 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808171829.LAA23441@lists1.best.com>



StarScully@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-08-17 03:48:15 EDT, you write:
>
> << I'm trying to find All Over Me in Blockbuster but they don't have
it! >>
>
> I doubt it any major movie chain (Blockbuster, Moovies, or Hollywood
Video)
> would carry a movie like this because most movies that are of the
"indie" type
> hardly show up on their shelves.  I still haven't seen AOM, but I am
going to
> purchase it at a store downtown from where I live where they sell
movies like
> these.  So you may have to order it or sumpthin.
>
> *janel*

Its funny how the things work in this part of the world.  A few months
ago we had
a discussion about 3rd world and 1st world. I used to live in Mexico
City, the
most populated city in the world (23 million people) I live now in
Monterrey NL,
Mexico. It is a very conservative city, the most industrialized and very
religious.  I asked in Blockbuster about AOM and they answered me that
they need
the spanish name to search for it in their DB.  I asked if they have
some
selective search from cast/crew or something and they don't. Awful!

Here in mexico the cinemas showed HC only a few months ago with some
success but
here in Monterrey people start leaving when Juliete and Paul kissed
each other in
the forest in their underware and the next scene, the ritual with their
saints,
when juliete said that the fourth world is better more people left the
place!
Armed with courage a good friend and I went to two theaters to survey
the people.
I did that! Can you beleive it? My wife says I'm over obsesed with HC!
Imagine a
man with his friend in a suit saying that the poll is for research in
universities
and running behind the people just to take the answers.  The population
asked was
about 40 people and the results are very interesting. 90% did not like
it.  Inside
the theatre, when the "tough" scenes of the film where showed, most of
the young
people who remain in the room began to make stupid jokes just because
they where
nervous because it is not usual to see two girls kissing.  In fact all
the
surveyed people think that juliete and paul where lesbians and they
killed honora
because they where evil and because they where lesbians! Some of them
did not
beleive this actually happened.

Excuse the lenght
Thanks for reading

Jose Antonio Abad

********************************************
    Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca
    The bigger the head, the bigger the headache
********************************************



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.5 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Goodbye!
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:05:48 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well everyone, the time has come for me to say goodbye.  I'm going off
to
college, so I won't have time for the list.  Maybe I'll come back after
I get
settled in, I don't know.  But I've had a great time.  It's been nice
knowing
all of you.  Bye!

Ava

P.S. - If anyone I've talked with personally in the past wants to keep
in
touch with me, feel free to e-mail me privately.  My address will still
be the
same: PURPLEAVA@aol.com


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.6 ---------------

From: Shania610@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Make the bad man stop!"
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:18:19 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I agree laurin!!

Hug!

KAren


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.7 ---------------

From: Shania610@aol.com
Subject: Re: More At Fault (long)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:52:06 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/16/98 6:23:08 PM Central Daylight Time,
orson@videotron.ca writes:

<< If anything Peter and Fran did a good job of having people empathize
with 
 her. >>


Yes, an EXCELLENT job. And I agree, I didnt realize till I read the
mail,
exactly WHAT the expression on Juliet's face when she's in the bathtub
is, the
realization that things have gone too far. It is very interesting to me
to
read all the behind the scenes stuff. Thanks guys!!

Karen


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.8 ---------------

From: mailcall <mailcall@bluemarble.net>
Subject: Re: Conservative US Culture OT
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:02:12 -0500 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199808172116.OAA01110@lists1.best.com>

on the so-called "will it play in kansas" question;

even regions _within_ states can be different. i live in indiana. (pause
while everybody groans and thinks i live in an illiterate backwater
where
nothing ever happens). well, it is not quite that simple! indiana is a
very
strange state. many places here were founded by things like alternative
religious communities devoted to nature and sexual freedom. one of these
communes, needmore, still exists. artists and freethinkers abound in the
small towns. there are are covens of witches that date back several
generations, long before the witchcraft revival of the 60s. the dalai
lama's brother lives about 30 miles east of bloomington. indiana
university
provides open access to cultural experience all over the state.

but! in the large urban areas, people are terribly bible-beltish and
conservative. they get behind the religious right and push for an all
amen-hallelujah congress. we're starting to experience this in
bloomington,
where freedom of speech on the cable channel was cut down by a loud,
vocal
group of god people who didn't like the local tibetan cultural center's
presentation on the making of a sacred sand painting, and my mother's
series of videos on the sleazy conditions of poultry factories and
factory
farming.  they were "afraid that children might see" it. 

honestly though, having seen all those scenes from the "director's cut"
of
hc i think that miramax probably really just cut them for time as not
contributing to the action. anything to make the film shorter. it is a
well
known fact that in this country movies are getting shorter and shorter
so
that multiplexes can show them more times a day and sell more tickets
and
stuff to eat. used to be you could show a four-hour movie and just have
intermissions. by the time i was in college they were down to two hours.
now we're lucky if a film is a little over an hour and a half long. 

                    --==** melanthe alexian **==--
                      ...she just slipped away...



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.9 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Editing decisions
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 22:48:13 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Sharon Bowker wrote:

>I've read that Peter Jackson himself has said that the edits Miramax 
>wanted for U.S. distibution improved rather than detracted from the
film.

You can't really speak out publicly against someone who holds your
movie 
can you?

Fran told be she felt the film had been "butchered". She especially 
grumbled at that missing line.

My impression of the NZ version when I got it (a whole year later) was 
that "It was like seeing it for the first time again". I was surprised
at 
how much the extra 9 minutes or so added to the film.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n891.10 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Conservative US Culture OT
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 23:33:07 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

mailcall wrote:

>even regions _within_ states can be different. i live in indiana.

The same goes for NZ. Christchurch is more "British than England" and 
therefore more conservative than Auckland and Wellington.

(:^)]



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n891 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n892 --------------

    001 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)  - Re: Editing decisions
    002 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Just delete this one, I'm testing
    003 - "Major Tom" <majtom7@hotm - Liberal Cities in the US
    004 - Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@h - Editing
    005 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Editing
    006 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: the "Murray O'Lanza" scene
    007 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: Liberal Cities in the US
    008 - Corrie Vierregger <suebri - can someone please help
    009 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Liberal Cities in the US
    010 - b <bryanw@666.org>        - Farewell

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.1 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Editing decisions
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 06:39:08 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199808172103.OAA21821@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199808172103.OAA21821@lists1.best.com>

On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:04:15 -0500, Sharon Bowker
<sbowker1@herald.cc.purdue.edu> wrote:

>Having 
>watched both versions back-to-back...it strikes me that the US version
"moves" 
>along a bit better.

But isn't that true for most films?  I mean the cut you saw first
always is the best.  I remember when i saw the LEON 'version longue'
for the first time i thought it was great to see all these new scenes,
but at the same time it felt like a different film, one i didn't
automatically think was better.  Same story with HC.  I'm sure that if
my first viewings would have been the longer versions i would have
prefered those.

About HC, i think the US cut is pretty damn good.  I only wish they
would have left in the balcony scene, and the b/w ending instead of
the hideous sepia tone one.  The extra henri scenes are nice, but the
US cut already has too much hulmes scenes imho, every time the film
focusses on the hulmes it's like the film slows down... a lot!

Still, the perfect HC special edition would be the NZ cut.

--
!jeroen - the netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME  hEAVENLY CREATURES  jUDE  lEON  nBK


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.2 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Just delete this one, I'm testing
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:59:44 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808180329.UAA11282@lists1.best.com>

For anyone who opens this one anyway, I'm sorry....
I've been sending emails to the list, lots and lots, and none of them
arrived. So I'm just trying one more time before i'm really getting
desperate....

Take care,
Marloes



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.3 ---------------

From: "Major Tom" <majtom7@hotmail.com>
Subject: Liberal Cities in the US
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:57:43 GMT
Content-Type: text/plain


>From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Conservative US Culture
>Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:14:09 EDT


>However no where near as free and liberal as san Francisco.  i
>suggest a vacation to anyone who has never been there so you may 
compare it to
>your current city, then you will know!!!!
>
>Jennifer 

I agree...San Francisco is one of the most liberal cities I ever been
to 
along with New Orleans.  Lots to see, eat, hear....I think it is no 
coincidence that these places have a large gay population.  I suspect 
that I'd add Key West to this list after visiting it.

Michael



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.4 ---------------

From: Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@herald.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Editing
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:42:32 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hello Creatures All--

>>I've read that Peter Jackson himself has said that the edits Miramax 
>>wanted for U.S. distibution improved rather than detracted from the
film.

>You can't really speak out publicly against someone who holds your
movie 
>can you?
Jean...I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea how this part of
the 
distribution process works. I was only repeating something I read
elsewhere.

>Fran told be she felt the film had been "butchered". She especially 
>grumbled at that missing line.
Hilda Hulme referring to the girls as Borovnian princesses and Pauline
as her 
foster daughter were central to understanding what motivated both
Juliet and 
Paul...I can see why Ms. Walsh was unhappy with that particular edit.

>My impression of the NZ version when I got it (a whole year later) was 
>that "It was like seeing it for the first time again". I was surprised
at 
>how much the extra 9 minutes or so added to the film.
I agree with you Jean! It's a delightful experience and provides the
viewer with 
a far more balanced view of the circumstances surrounding both
families. The 
point I was trying to make is that the U.S. edits had nothing to do
with 
controversial content. If they had...one of your biggest scenes would
have ended 
up on the cutting room floor! Now THAT would have been a tragedy of
monumental 
proportions!!!

Best regards,
Sharon
********************************************************************************

"...how sad it is for other people that they cannot appreciate our
genius."

                                                   -Heavenly Creatures


Sharon A. Bowker
sbowker1@purdue.edu
Lafayette, Indiana, USA

   



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.5 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Editing
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 10:33:07 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Sharon Bowker wrote:

>I was trying to make is that the U.S. edits had nothing to do with 
>controversial content.

It did- Not by cutting stuff outright but by "toning down" certain 
elements:

-The girls kiss more in the NZ cut.

-Juliet (Anne Perry) delivers more blows during the murder.

-The bloodier shots have been excised: the coughing patient, the 
dinner-table deaths (Pauline's fantasy), Pauline's final scream.

I grant you that the U.S. version is more polished. But, like music,
you 
can "overpolish" something. The NZ version has a grittier edge.  

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.6 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: the "Murray O'Lanza" scene
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:59:06 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808050952.CAA28530@lists1.best.com>

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>

>I would have thought that she was MORE angry that her father was
spoiling
>the song....so I think that the translators maybe weren't paying too
much
>attention to the context.

I know my reply's a bit late, but still thanx for answering. I thought
exactly the same thing... (-:

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.7 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: Liberal Cities in the US
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:09:33 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808181259.FAA12902@lists1.best.com>

Whew!! I'm back. That hideous bootmonster's been after me all weekend,
scared me to death!!!...or was it you Jean??? *jk*

I believe this message also got lost in cyberspace, so I'll post it
again:

About the liberal subject. I suggest that all filmmakers move to The
Netherlands! Defenately one of the most liberal countries around. We
lack the money for big projects, but I like low-budgetfilms better
anyway... (-:

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.8 ---------------

From: Corrie Vierregger <suebridehead@yahoo.com>
Subject: can someone please help
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:15:45 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi everyone,
I'm back to school now so I really don't have time right now to read
all this mail...(i actually have sumfin ta do ohmygawd!) Can someone
help me unsub? I will be back, I just need to settle into this normal
school routine again. And right now things are a bit hectic. I HATE to
leave, I really don't want to, but I don't have time to read all this
mail and I feel bad when I just delete it all. So if someone could
tell me how to unsub, and then re-sub..so I can get back on in a few
weeks, I would be extremely greatful. Thanks!






==
-corrie

"Once you get to know sad...she's got some sweet little dresses, you
know?" 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.9 ---------------

From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Liberal Cities in the US
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:50:07 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <199808181259.FAA12902@lists1.best.com>


> >From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
> >Subject: Re: Conservative US Culture
> >Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:14:09 EDT
>
>
> >However no where near as free and liberal as san Francisco.  i
> >suggest a vacation to anyone who has never been there so you may
> compare it to
> >your current city, then you will know!!!!
> >
> >Jennifer
>
> I agree...San Francisco is one of the most liberal cities I ever been
to
> along with New Orleans.  Lots to see, eat, hear....I think it is no
> coincidence that these places have a large gay population.  I suspect
> that I'd add Key West to this list after visiting it.
Hafta say Miami Beach is more liberal than Key West....South Beach is
WONDERFUL!



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n892.10 ---------------

From: b <bryanw@666.org>
Subject: Farewell
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The Heavenly Creatures site is being shut down.

I continue to have interest in the movie, and discussions that derive
from it.  And, of course, my appreciation of Melanie Lynskey will never
fade.   I wish her much success and hope to see her in many movies to
come over the next several years.

Unfortunately, I lack the time to enjoy this list, or the website, with
any regularity.  I may check into the mailing list from time to
time to see how things are going.  Because of my lack of time (and
failure to find someone who can host the site AND maintain it with as 
much zeal as I did a few years back), HeavenlyWeb will be closed,
effective immediately.

However, rejoice!  The mailing list will continue, as long as people
want
it.

thanks,
b


-- 
b


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n892 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n893 --------------

    001 - LuvleeNine@aol.com        - New Movie.
    002 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Farewell
    003 - Eve008@aol.com            - NZ cut
    004 - Bao Ly <Refuse_to_be_burn - Re: Farewell
    005 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - HeavenlyWeb
    006 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Re: New Movie.
    007 - b <bryanw@666.org>        - Bao Ly / Reflection: HeavenlyWeb
    008 - Stephen Bull <sybull@line - Farwell & Corruption
    009 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Corruption
    010 - FLiekefett@t-online.de (F - Sister my Sister

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.1 ---------------

From: LuvleeNine@aol.com
Subject: New Movie.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:21:04 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello there, my darling Creatures.

  I just finished watching Sister, My Sister.  I was wondering if
anyone has
seen it?  I couldn't believe how similar I found this story (based on
true
events) and Heavenly Creatures.  
  I was just wondering if any of you had seen it, and if so, what did
you
think, and do you have other information about the two girls in that
movie.
   With love,
     *LUV9*			
   ~Nasrin~


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.2 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Farewell
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 98 00:31:36 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

b wrote:

>The Heavenly Creatures site is being shut down.

I , for one, am heartbroken.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.3 ---------------

From: Eve008@aol.com
Subject: NZ cut
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:06:50 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

   Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the NZ cut on VHS video?
Thanks!


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.4 ---------------

From: Bao Ly <Refuse_to_be_burnt_out@reflection.org>
Subject: Re: Farewell
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:03:53 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808182348.QAA28960@lists1.best.com>

b wrote:
> 
> The Heavenly Creatures site is being shut down.
> 
> I continue to have interest in the movie, and discussions that derive
> from it.  And, of course, my appreciation of Melanie Lynskey will
never
> fade.   I wish her much success and hope to see her in many movies to
> come over the next several years.
> 
> Unfortunately, I lack the time to enjoy this list, or the website,
with
> any regularity.  I may check into the mailing list from time to
> time to see how things are going.  Because of my lack of time (and
> failure to find someone who can host the site AND maintain it with as
> much zeal as I did a few years back), HeavenlyWeb will be closed,
> effective immediately.
> 
> However, rejoice!  The mailing list will continue, as long as people
want
> it.
> 
> thanks,
> b

Hello Bryan and creatures,

I apologize for not staying in contact with many of my friends here on
the list.  Last time to spoke Bryan, we moved HeavenlyWeb to the same
machine/server as The Kate Winslet Show - both generously hosted for
free by my friend Dominique Jaeggi.  Since KWS takes up so much resource
and bandwidth the main server at SimpleNet, I was shutdown by their new
change in policy.  KWS is in the top 5% of sites using up more than 90%
of their resources.  KWS mirror site at www.reflection.org became the
main site, and it too, uses up more than 90% of the resources on that
server.  As a consequent, it was pulled down temporarily for almost a
month now.  So did HeavenlyWeb on the same server.

Dominique and I are in the process of purchasing a new machine/server
for KWS and HeavenlyWeb and leasing a 700kbit direct line to host it.  I
anticipate both KWS and HeavenlyWeb to be back online, up and running by
Sept. 5, 1998.  I will have, in good will and on contract, unlimited
webspace, unlimited bandwidth, unlimited email accounts, and 10 Domain
IPs as long as Dominique holds his job. :)  We plan to host other
celebrity sites with advertisments in the future.

So if you still want HeavenlyWeb online, Bryan, we will continue to host
it.  I hope you will want keep it online and maintain it.  Sorry, I have
not contact you about the downtime or other technical problems. Please
keep it up and going.  Melanie Lynskey is just starting career after her
debut in Heavenly Creatures, while Kate is the toast of Hollywood.  I
look forward to the future of both of their careers.  I hope you,
Thaiphong Vo (what happened to near-residence Thai??:), and Adam Abrams
will continue to update us with Melanie, Kate, and HC info.  

Again, HeavenlyWeb will be back up Sept. 5, 1998 if you want it to. 
Contact me info@reflection.org and Dominique webmaster@reflection.org
for server resource info and detail.

I want to say "Hi" to Sharon, Phil, and Sandra too.  Jefferson and Jean
too.  And Joakim.  Everyone out there. :)  Long time no speak!

Glad to be back in heaven,,,

Bao


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.5 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: HeavenlyWeb
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:48:46 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808182348.QAA28960@lists1.best.com>
<199808190608.XAA20684@lists1.best.com>

I've been wondering why I haven't been able to visit HeavenlyWeb for a
while now. I thought it was just being updated or something...

I'd love to see HW back online, and I don't know if there's anything I
can do to make that happen, but I'm willing to help. And I'm sure it can
be done if Bryan doesn't have to do it all alone. I don't have time to
work on it 24/7, but I know updates are needed and if we can just get
those online, we'll see what happens next!

Although I'd love to see the site back online, I still have one (maybe
stupid) question left if that doesn't happen. How are people going to
find this mailinglist? I found it on HeavenlyWeb and I'm not sure if
'The Fourth World' explains how to subscribe...

Take care,
Marloes




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.6 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>
Subject: Re: New Movie.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:51:24 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808190023.RAA02058@lists1.best.com>

>   I just finished watching Sister, My Sister.  I was wondering if
anyone has
> seen it? 

I didn't see this movie yet (and I don't even know if it was released on
video here in Brazil) but what I know is that it tells the same story as
Jean Genet's play, "The Maids". If I can remember it well, I read about
Mel playing one of these girls in a stage production some time ago. I'm
sure the older subscribers know more about this... is it really true?

:*
Juliana.




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.7 ---------------

From: b <bryanw@666.org>
Subject: Bao Ly / Reflection: HeavenlyWeb
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:14:11 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

I had through reflection.org had gone down, hence my post to the list
detailing the demise of HeavenlyWeb.  Sorry.

Seems reflection (yay!) is still willing to host the site, so it shall
live on.  More details to come in the future.

thanks,
b

-- 
b


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.8 ---------------

From: Stephen Bull <sybull@lineone.net>
Subject: Farwell & Corruption
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:00:41 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hiya,

I hope Heavenly web continues.
It is one of the best laid out
sites around. There is nothing
more enjoyable than browsing
aroung a thoughtfuly put
together site. Would be sad to
see it go. I found out last
night, that the is no more
"The Bastards have landed" web
site. It was invaluable for
finding out what was happening
with Peter & Fran..Sigh*

Also I was a bit disturbed by
Jean to find out that TV and
films don't corrupt us. Oh !
What's the point in watching
them without the thrill of
knowing that the next episode
of "South Park" might be the
one to tip you over the
edge?8-).

I have decided that all Orson
Welles Films and Mario Lanza
Records are to be banned from
the house. A sign will be but
on the bathroom door:"No
Photographic equipment
allowed" . I don't want my
children growing up in a
"wayward"  fashion.

Stephen



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.9 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Corruption
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 98 16:01:44 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Stephen Bull wrote:

>Also I was a bit disturbed by
>Jean to find out that TV and
>films don't corrupt us. Oh !
>What's the point in watching
>them without the thrill of
>knowing that the next episode
>of "South Park" might be the
>one to tip you over the
>edge?8-).

That's an interesting point. I won't deny the fact that TV can be a 
TRIGGER. But there is a difference between being the trigger and the 
cause. Psychotics can get triggered by anything from a the sight of a 
woman's ankle to the barking of dogs. If someone went wacko because of 
something he heard or saw on TV, chances are there was some major 
groundwork laid out beforehand.

Something has to take you to that edge for you to get pushed over it. 

Then again, after seeing Cartman deputized as a cop, I've had this urge 
to grab a nightstick and go around smacking people screaming (in my
best 
Rod Steiger impression): "Respect mah authoritah!" 



   

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n893.10 ---------------

From: FLiekefett@t-online.de (Frank)
Subject: Sister my Sister
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:41:33 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808190023.RAA02058@lists1.best.com>

Hi fellow creatures,

LuvleeNine@aol.com schrieb:
> 
> Hello there, my darling Creatures.
> 
>   I just finished watching Sister, My Sister.  I was wondering if
anyone has
> seen it?  I couldn't believe how similar I found this story (based on
true
> events) and Heavenly Creatures.
>   I was just wondering if any of you had seen it, and if so, what did
you
> think, and do you have other information about the two girls in that
movie.

I think it is a wonderful film. It is difficult for me to say this
scene was
very good, the other could have done better, or so. I think the
actresses where
so convincing in their performance (Joely Richardson as Christine,
Jodhi May as
Lea). Really intriguing (even if I don't like the music very much,
except the
'lullaby' written by Nancy Meckler).

There is some information available on the 'Internet Movie Database'
(http://www.imdb.com/). I get some more info about the case and a pic
(b/w) of
the real sisters from a list-member when I posted a similar question.
Don't
expect too much (the whole case remains mysterious because you only
have the
testimony of the two offenders), but let me now if you are interested.

Greetings,

Frank

-- 
'... although we may not be alone in the universe, in our own separate
 ways, on this planet, we are all...alone.'
 (3x20: Jose Chung's 'From Outer Space')




--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n893 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n894 --------------

    001 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - How do you....
    002 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: Sister my Sister
    003 - Kim Novak <Netdance@world - sister my sister

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n894.1 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: How do you....
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:12:22 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Creatures.  I know I sent a goodbye message a few days ago, and I am
leaving, but I can't remember how to unsubscribe, especially now that
HeavenlyWeb is shut down.  Could someone help me out?  Thanks in
advance!

Ava


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n894.2 ---------------

From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: Sister my Sister
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:47:36 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808190023.RAA02058@lists1.best.com>
<199808192208.PAA01363@lists1.best.com>

Hi there creatures:
Although I have not seen the movie yet, I would like to know more about
this one.
I'm interested. :)

Thanks for reading

Jose Antonio

Frank wrote:

> Hi fellow creatures,
>
> LuvleeNine@aol.com schrieb:
> >
> > Hello there, my darling Creatures.
> >
> >   I just finished watching Sister, My Sister.  I was wondering if
anyone has
> > seen it?  I couldn't believe how similar I found this story (based
on true
> > events) and Heavenly Creatures.
> >   I was just wondering if any of you had seen it, and if so, what
did you
> > think, and do you have other information about the two girls in
that movie.
>
> I think it is a wonderful film. It is difficult for me to say this
scene was
> very good, the other could have done better, or so. I think the
actresses where
> so convincing in their performance (Joely Richardson as Christine,
Jodhi May as
> Lea). Really intriguing (even if I don't like the music very much,
except the
> 'lullaby' written by Nancy Meckler).
>
> There is some information available on the 'Internet Movie Database'
> (http://www.imdb.com/). I get some more info about the case and a pic
(b/w) of
> the real sisters from a list-member when I posted a similar question.
Don't
> expect too much (the whole case remains mysterious because you only
have the
> testimony of the two offenders), but let me now if you are interested.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Frank
>
> --
> '... although we may not be alone in the universe, in our own separate
>  ways, on this planet, we are all...alone.'
>  (3x20: Jose Chung's 'From Outer Space')





--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n894.3 ---------------

From: Kim Novak <Netdance@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: sister my sister
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:22:38 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808172025.NAA20904@lists1.best.com>

last night i rented, and watched sister my sister. what follows is my
opinions regarding the HC comparison and such. i know i am but a
stranger on this list, considering my lack of posting, but i have a bit
to say on this subject.

both movies were very similar in theme, two female lovers are driven to
murder. Also they were both emotionally draining...but it is the content
of the emotions they produce that makes them the two most different
movies i could ever see. HC is like a ride, or a dance, and it all has
such a whirling, innocent feel about it. There's no dount, even at the
end, that it's Paul and Juliet's world..and they would do with it what
they see fit. In contrast, Lea and Christine seem lost. The whole film
is very grey, like something is lurking around every corner to catch
them. For me, Paul and Juliet chose the murder as something they must
have to do, with no turning back. With Lea and Christine is was pure
rage. I think the biggest difference is how you leave each film. With HC
it's tragic, what with melanie's scream and all...and with sister my
sister it's confused as to what to think but affected nonetheless. I've
heard that many people were disturbed by HC..i never was...but i was by
this film, just because of the atmosphere it projects.

sorry, that made no sense, but i thought i'd share it anyway. 

-jen


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n894 --------------