Michael : How what?
Oprah : How nervous are you right now?
Michael : I'm not nervous at all, actually.
Oprah : You really aren't?
Michael : No, I never get nervous.
Oprah : Not even for your first interview and it's live around the world? I
thought you'd be a little nervous but you're not and that's great because
if you're not nervous I won't be nervous. I just wanted to let the world
know that when we agreed to do this interview you said you would be willing
to talk to me about everything.
Michael : That's true.
Oprah : Very true. I was watching you in the background there watching you
in the video of the early years. Did that bring back memories for you?
Michael : It made me giggle because I haven't seen that footage in a long time.
Did it bring back memories? Yes, me and my brothers who I love dearly and
it's just a wonderful moment for me.
Oprah : I saw you laugh when you saw yourself singing Baby, Baby, Baby.
Michael : Yeah, I think James Brown is a genius you know when he's with the
Famous Flames, unbelieveable. I used to watch him on television and I used
to get angry at the camera-man because whenever he would really start to
dance they would be on a close-up so I couldn't see his feet. I'd shout
"show him show him.", so I could watch and learn.
Oprah : So he was a big mentor for you?
Michael : Phenomenal, phenomenal.
Oprah : Who else was?
Michael : Jackie Wilson who I adore as an entertainer, and of course music,
Motown. The Bee Gees who are brilliant, I just love great music.
Oprah : When I look at those tapes of you, and heaven knows, putting this
together I think I've seen every piece of video ever done of you, and
watching those tapes when, especialy in the younger years, you seem to
really come alive on stage. Were you as happy off stage as you appear to be
on stage?
Michael : Well, on stage for me was home. I was most comfortable on stage but
once I got off stage, I was like, very sad.
Oprah : Really?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : And sad from the beginning, sad since it first started, sad?
Michael : Lonely, sad, having to face popurlarity and all that. There were times
when I had great times with my brother, pillow fights and things, but I
was, used to always cry from loneliness.
Oprah : Beginning at what age?
Michael : Oh, very little, eight, nine.
Oprah : When you all first became famous?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : So it wasn't what it appeared to be to the rest of the world, all
of us .. I remember I was a little black child, wanted to marry Jacky
Jackson, your brother, so I mean to all of us we thought this was the most
wonderful thing in the world, who wouldn't have wanted that life?
Michael : It was wonderful, there is a lot of wonderment in being famous. I mean
you travel the world, you meet people, you go places, it's great. But then
there's the other side, which I'm not complaining about. There is lots lof
rehearsal and you have to put in a lot of your time, give of yourself a
lot.
Oprah : Do you feel... I talked with Susan de Passe the other day, and
Susan de Passe worked with you at Motown and really groomed you all and
found the outfits for the Ed Sullivan Show. We talked about whether or not
it was really lost, was it?
Michael : Well, especially now I come to realise - and then - I would do my
schooling which was three hours with a tutor and right after that I would
go to the recording studio and record, and I'd record for hours and hours
until it's time to go to sleep. And I remember going to the record studio
there was a park across the street and I'd see all the children playing and
I would cry because it would make me sad that I would have to work instead.
Oprah : I want to go to this and show some pictures of you as a little boy.
Michael : OK.
Oprah : Susan said it was a heavy price. I want to know how big of a price
it was, losting your childhood or having this kind of life?
Michael : Well, you don't get to do things that other children get to do, you
know, having friends and slumber parties and buddies. There was none of
that for me. I didn't have any friends when I was little. My brothers were
my friends.
Oprah : Was there ever a place where - because you know children - because
I remember talking to myself and playing with my dolls - was there.. and I
think every child needs a place to escape into, a child's world, a child's
imagination, was there ever a time you could do that?
Michael : No. And that is why I think now because I didn't have it then, I
compensate for that. People wonder why I always have children around,
because I find the thing that I never had through them, you know
Disneyland, amusement parks, arcade games. I adore all that stuff because
when I was little it was always work, work, work from one concert to the
next, if it wasn't a concert it was the recording studio, if it wasn't that
it was TV shows or interviews or picture sessions. There was always
something to do.
Oprah : Did you feel, Smokey Robinson said this about you, and so have many
other people, that you you were like an old soul in a little body.
Michael : I remember hearing that all the time when I was little. They used to
call me a 45-years-old midget wherever I went, I just used to hear that and
wherever I went .. just like when some people when you were little and you
started to sing did you know you were that good? And I say I never thought
about it, I just did it and it came out. I never thought about it really.
Oprah : So here you were, Michael Jackson, you all had hits, you all had so
many hits, four hits in a row, and you were crying because you couldn't be
like other kids.
Michael : Well, I loved show business and I still love show business, but then
there are times you want to play and have some fun and that part did make
me sad. I remember one time we wre getting ready to go to South America and
everything was packed up and in the car ready to go and I hid and I was
crying because I really did not want to go. I wanted to play. I did not
want to go.
Oprah : Were your brothers jealous of you when you started getting all the
attention?
Michael : Not that I know of, no.
Oprah : You never felt a sense of jealousy?
Michael : Oh, let me think - no. No, I think they were always happy for me that
I could do certain things, but I've never felt jealousy among them.
Oprah : Do you think they are jealous of you now?
Michael : I wouldn't think so. I don't think so, no.
Oprah : No. What's your relationship like with your family? Are you all
close still?
Michael : I love my family very much. I wish I could see them a little more
often than I do. But we understand because we're a show business family and
we all work. We do have family day when we all get together, we pick a
person's house, it might be Jermaine's house or Marlon's house or Tito's
house and everyone will come together in fellowship and love each other and
talk and catch up on who's doing what and....
Oprah : You weren't all upset about LaToya and LaToya's book and the things
that LaToya has said about the family?
Michael : Well, I haven't read LaToya's book. I just know how to love my sister
dearly, I love LaToya and I always will and I always see her as the happy,
loving LaToya that I remember growing up with. So I couldn't completely
answer on that.
Oprah : Do you feel that some of the things that she's been saying are
true?
Michael : I couldn't answer Oprah, honestly I haven't read the book. That's the
honest truth.
Oprah : Well, let's go back to when you were growing up and feeling all of
this, well, I guess it's a sense of anguish, I guess, so there was no one
for you to play with other than your brother's, you never had slumber
parties?
Michael : Never.
Oprah : So I'm wondering for you, being this cute little boy who everybody
adored and everybody who comes up to you they're pulling your cheeks and
how cute, how adolescence going through that duck stage where everything's
awkward, and I'm wondering when you started to go through adolescence
having been this child superstar, was that a particularly difficult time
for you?
Michael : Very. Very, very difficult, yes. Because I think every child star
suffers through this period because you're not the cute and charming child
that you were. You start to grow, and they want to keep you little forever.
Oprah : Who's they?
Michael : The public. And um, nature takes its course.
Oprah : It does?
Michael : Yes, and I had pimples so badly it used to make me so shy, I used not
to look at myself, I'd hide my face in the dark, I wouldn't want to look in
the mirror and my father teased me and I just hated it and I cried every
day.
Oprah : Your father teased you about your pimples?
Michael : Yes and tell me I'm ugly.
Oprah : Your father would say that?
Michael : Yes he would. Sorry Joseph.
Oprah : What's your relationship like with him?
Michael : I love my father but I don't know him.
Oprah : Are you angry with him for doing that? I think that's pretty cruel
actually.
Michael : Am I angry with him?
Oprah : Because adolescence is hard enough without a parent telling you
that you're ugly.
Michael : Am I angry with him? Sometimes I do get angry. I don't know him the
way I'd like to know him. My mother's wonderful. To me she's perfection. I
just wish I could understand my father.
Oprah : And so let's talk about those teen years. Is that when you started
to go inside yourself? Because obviously you haven't spoken to the world
for 14 years. So you went inside, you became a recluse. Was it to protect
yourself?
Michael : I felt there wasn't anything important for me to say and those were
very sad, sad years for me.
Oprah : Why so sad? Because on stage you were performing, you were getting
your Grammys. Why so sad?
Michael : Oh, there's a lot of sadness about my past and adolescence, about my
father and and all of those things.
Oprah : So he would tease you, make fun of you.
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : Would he ... did he ever beat you?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : And why would he beat you?
Michael : He saw me, he wanted me ... I guess I don't know if I was his golden
child or whatever it was, some may call it a strict disciplinarian or
whatever, but he was very strict...
Oprah : As a child or as an adult?
Michael : Both. He's never heard me say this. I'm sorry, please don't be mad at
me.
Oprah : Well, I mean, I suppose everybody has to take responsibility for
what they've done in life. And your father is one of those people who also
have to take responsibility.
Michael : But I do love him.
Oprah : Yes, I understand this.
Michael : And I am forgiving.
Oprah : But can you really forgive?
Michael : I do forgive. There's so much garbage and so much trash that's written
about me it is so untrue, they're complete lies, and those are some of the
things I wanted to talk about. The press has made up so much ... God ...
awful, horrifying stories ... it has made me realise the more often you
hear a lie, I mean, you begin to believe it.
Oprah : Um, we talked about all of the rumors just before we went to the
break and there are so many. First of all, I have been in this house
getting prepared for this and I've been all over the house upstairs when
you weren't looking, looking for that oxygen chamber and I cannot find an
oxygen chamber anywhere in the house.
Michael : That, that story is so crazy, I mean it's one of those tabloid things,
it's completely made up.
Oprah : Okay, but you are in something there, there's a picture of you,
where did that come from? How did it get started?
Michael : That's ... I did a commercial for Pepsi and I was burned very badly
and we settled for one million dollars and I gave all the money ... like we
built this place called the Michael Jackson Burn Centre and that's a piece
of technology used for burn victims, right, so I'm looking at the piece of
technology and decide to just go inside it and just to hammer around,
somebody takes the picture, when they process the picture the person who
processes the picture says, "Oh, Michael Jackson," he made a copy and these
pictures went all over the world with this lie attached to it. It's a
complete lie, why do people buy these papers. It's not the truth and I'm
here to say. You know, do not judge a person, do not pass judgement, unless
you have talked to them one on one, I don't care what the story is, do not
judge them because it's a lie.
Oprah : Did you buy the Elephant man's bones, were you trying to get them
for ...
Michael : No that's another stupid story. I love the story of the Elephant Man,
he reminds me of me a lot and I could relate to it, it made me cry because
I saw myself in in the story, but no I never asked for the ... where am I
going to put some bones?
Oprah : I don't know. Okay, then let's go to the thing that is most
discussed about you, that is the color of your skin is most obviously
different than when you were younger, and so I think it has caused a great
deal of speculation and controversy as to what you have done or are doing,
are you bleaching your skin and is your skin lighter because you don't like
being black?
Michael : Number one, as I know of, there is no such thing as skin bleaching, I
have never seen it, I don't know what it is.
Oprah : Well they used to have those products, I remember growing up always
hearing always use bleach and glow, but you have to have about 300,000
gallons.
Michael : Okay, but number one, this is the situation. I have a skin disorder
that destroys the pigmentation of the skin, it's something that I cannot
help. Okay. But when people make up stories that I don't want to be who I
am it hurts me.
Oprah : So it is...
Michael : It's a problem for me that I can't control, but what about all the
millions of people who sits out in the sun, to become darker, to become
other than what they are, no one says nothing about that.
Oprah : So when did this start, when did your ... when did the color of
your skin start to change?
Michael : Oh boy, I don't ... sometime after Thriller, around Off the Wall,
Thriller, around sometime then.
Oprah : But what did you think?
Michael : It's in my family, my father said it's on his side. I can't control
it, I don't understand.
Oprah : So okay, I just want to get this straight, you are not taking
anything to change the color of your skin ...
Michael : Oh, God no, we tried to control it and using make-up evens it out
because it makes blotches on my skin, I have to even out my skin. But you
know what's funny, why is that so important? That's not important to me.
I'm a great fan of art, I love Michaelangelo, if I had the chance to talk
to him or read about him I would want to know what inspired him to become
who he is, the anatomy of his craftsmanship, not about who he went out with
last night ... what' wrong with ... I mean that's what is important to me.
Oprah : How much plastic surgery have you had?
Michael : Very, very little. I mean you can count on my two fingers, I mean
let's say this, if you want to know about those things, all the nosey
people in the world, read my book Moonwalk, it's in my book. You know,
let's put it this way, if all the people in Hollywood who have had plastic
surgery, if they went on vacation, there wouldn't be a person left in town.
Oprah : Mmm, I think you might be right.
Michael : I am right.
Oprah : Did you start having plastic surgery because of those teen years
because of not liking the way you looked?
Michael : No, not really. It was only two things. Really, get my book, it's no
big deal.
Oprah : You don't want to tell me what it is? You had your nose done,
obviously.
Michael : Yeah, but so did a lot of people that I know.
Oprah : And so, when you hear all these things about you, and there have
been more...
Michael : I've never had my cheekbones done, never had my eyes done, never had
my hips done and all this stuff.
Oprah : Are you pleased now with the way you ...
Michael : I'm never pleased with anything, I'm a perfectionist, it's part of who
I am.
Oprah : And so when you look in the mirror now and so the image that looks
back at you are there days when you say I kinda like this or I like the way
my hair ...
Michael : No. I'm never pleased with myself. No, I try not to look in the
mirror.
Oprah : I have to ask you this, so many mothers in my audience have said to
please ask you this question. Why do you always grab your crotch?
Michael : (Giggle) Why do I grab my crotch?
Oprah : You've got a thing with your crotch going on there.
Michael : I think it happens subliminally. When you're dancing, you know you are
just interpreting the music and the sounds and the accompaniment if there's
a driving base, if there's a cello, if there's a string, you become the
emotion of what that sound is, so if I'm doing a movement and I go bam and
I grab myself it's... it's the music that compels me to do it, it's not
saying that I'm dying to grab down there and it's not in a great place you
don't think about it, it just happens, sometimes I'll look back at the
footage and I go ... and I go did I do that, so I'm a slave to the rhythm,
yeah, okay.
Oprah : When you have broken all those records, when you have the number
one album ever sold, when you've broken every record there is to break,
when you become an icon of an industry, is there always the pressure to do
something bigger and something better.
Michael : Oh gee, that is something, um, it makes it harder each time to follow
up. You try to be as original as you can be without thinking about
statistics, just you go from the soul and from the heart.
Oprah : And so when you think of that what do you do, you go, you meditate,
you think, well I will now do the Superbowl.
Michael : Nooo, I just create out of my heart, really.
Oprah : Liz Taylor said you were king of pop, rock and soul. Where did this
whole notion that you proclaimed yourself king of pop come from?
Michael : Well, I didn't proclaim myself to be anything. I'm happy to be alive,
I'm happy to be who I am, king of pop was first said by Elizabeth Taylor on
one of the award shows.
Oprah : And that's where this all started?
Michael : Yes, and the fans ... all the stadiums that we played at they'd bring
banners saying king of pop and jackets that say king of pop and t-shirts
that say king of pop and they chanted outside my hotel, so it just became
something that just happened all over the world.
Oprah : Do you go out, do you date?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : Who do you date?
Michael : Well, right now it's Brooke Shields. Well, we try not to be
everywhere, go everywhere, it's mostly at home, she'll come over, I'll go
to her house, because I don't like going out in public.
Oprah : Have you ever been in love?
Michael : Yeah.
Oprah : With Brooke Shields?
Michael : Yes, and another girl.
Oprah : And another girl? Let me ask you this, and it's embarrassing for me
to ask you this, but I'm gonna ask you anyway, are you a virgin?
Michael : Uhhhhh, how could you ask you that question?
Oprah : I just want to know.
Michael : I'm a gentleman.
Oprah : You're a gentleman?
Michael : I'm a gentleman.
Oprah : I would interpret that to mean that you believe that a lady is a
lady and therefore..
Michael : That's something that's private, I mean, it shouldn't be spoken about
openly. You can call me old fashioned if you want, but, you know I mean
that's very personal.
Oprah : So, you're not going to answer it?
Michael : I'm embarrassed.
Oprah : Well, we would like to know whether or not there is a possibility
that you are going to marry one day and have children?
Michael : I would feel my life is incomplete if I do not because I adore the
family life, I adore children and I adore that whole thing. And I would
love to, that's one of my dreams, but I couldn't right now because I'm
married, I'm married to my music and there has to be that closeness in
order to do the kind of work that I want to do and ...
Oprah : What kind of woman makes you - in the video we're going to see
later, we premier the world video, there's a line where you talk about
being quenched, so what kind of person does that for you?
Michael : (Sings) Quench my desire ... Well Brooke, I've always liked her and
when I was little I used to stay with Diana Ross, me and my brother stayed
with her for years and I never said, but I always had a crush on her.
Oprah : You did?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : I heard too, this was another one of those rumors, that you had
proposed to Elizabeth Taylor at some point.
Michael : Elizabeth Taylor is gorgeous, beautiful, and she still is today, I'm
crazy about her.
Oprah : Yeah, but did you propose to her?
Michael : I would like to have.
Oprah : Just recently there was a story and I know one of your attorneys
held a news conference, there was a story about you wanting to have a
little white play you in a Pepsi commercial.
Michael : That is so stupid, that is the most ridiculous, horrifying story I've
ever heard. It's crazy. Why, number one, it's my face as a child in the
commercial, me when I was little, why would I want a white child to play
me. I'm a black American. I am proud to be a black American, I am proud of
my race..