Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: All Hi! I was reading a review of Marilyn Hamel's book "Sex Etiquette" [Delacorte, 1984] and she warns about the lies men tell in order to get women into bed. Most are typical "singles bar" lines. Here they are: 1) You're the prettiest lady I've seen all night. Are you a model? 2) I hate macho men who can't treat a woman as a human being. 3) I don't want you to think I just fall into bed with every woman. 4) I'm really getting fed up with the singles scene. I want a woman I can settle down with. 5) Technically I'm still married, but we're not working at it. 6) I havn't had sex in six months, women just don't seem to warm up to me. 7) I have this great Mozart collection, would you like to come back to my place and hear it? 8) Can I order us a bottle of champagne? I just made a killing on the SuperBowl. 9) I'm not into one night stands. I only sleep with a woman if I want to see her again. 10) Can I come in for a moment? I have to use the phone. Now: What do you think of these "lies"? Is the author unfairly tarring all men by suggesting that these are invariably lies? And, how would women respond to these statements and questions? Oh...one other question...what would you add to or delete from the list? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, If *I* thought the guy was a great guy..and from my own perceptions I was convinced that he was a straight shooter, I would believe any of those "lies". If the guy, in my opinion, were a jerk or a nerd......NOTHING he could hand out in the way of a line would convince me he was ok. It all boils down to: how smart is the woman about men, and how bad does she want to get laid? Trusting hugs, Diane Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Diane, Oh so ray Jose'!!! As we used to say in the bullpen,...... The girls you hardly notice Are the ones you have to watch, She's Pleasant and she's Friendly While she's looking at your crotch!!! dave Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) BTW, Those are lyrics from Crosby Stills and Nash. must give credit where its due. dave Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) Dear Debonair Dave, A guy once told me that he is made VERY uncomfortable by women who look at his crotch in an appraising sort of way...for him, it is a real turnoff. Yet, as a woman, I have had my breasts stared at frequently, even during casual conversations with men, even during BUSINESS discussions. Now....can YOU tell me in your very debonair way, what is the DIFFERENCE? Why is it okay for men to stare....but some men feel threatened by a woman looking THEM over? (I've never hung out in a PUB before..but if I had known it would be this much fun I would have started years ago.....hmmm....maybe I should do this in real life too!!! (grabbing coat...car keys...house keys.........SLAM!)) Huggs, Diane Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Dear Debutante Diane, I never said anything about feeling uncomfortable about women staring at my crotch. After all, I wore tight doubleknit pants for 18 years, (what do you think the women are looking at??????) If your friend is uncomfortable with it then it is a matter of "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!!" I'll admit it would be hard staring at a guy's crotch in a business meeting where we are generally seated, but it might liven things up a bit!! (Diane what *ARE* you doing under the table?????) One thing that catcher's taught me (catcher's are inevidiably women chaser's) is to return a stare with a stare, and the longer it is held, the better the sex. No I haven't put this to use lately, but it used to work!!!!! dd Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) Dave...I've heard that about the stare before...but I always chicken out and look away.What does that tell you about me? Sb: #4229-#Men's Lies: Women Wise? Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Diane, You're willing but more cautious. It takes a little more to win you over, but once you do..... OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You'll make it worthwhile! dave Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) Oh Dave.........is that the message I am giving????? (BLUSH!!) I will not even *attempt* a stare down anymore! Embarrassed hugs, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! Gee, I have this great collection of MS.DOS software! Would you like to come back to my place and run some programs? (wink wink) On a more serious note, how do you make that assessment so quickly? Is there some secret signal that men convey to women about whether they are jerks or nerds? Is it the plastic pocket protector? In my days in engineering school we ALL wore plastic pocket protectors and had slide rules hanging from our belts. (those were the days when we programmed with punched cards...on a state-of-the-art IBM 360). Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) HI Rusty! Hmmmmmm.......you have hi-tech etchings! No, there is no SECRET signal that a guy is a jerk or a nerd. It is usually pretty evident....and the plastic pocket protector, while not particulary attractive (especially shoved into a polyester pocket!) would not be MY criteria. If a guy is a jerk or a nerd, he would be a person who was not intereted in ME, in my responses, or in my comfort in the situation. That would be the first and most obvious reaction I would get. To paraphrase, a nerd is a nerd is a nerd. How DO other women determine the relative "nerdness" of a guy? I just go by my perceptions and my intuitions. I have been known to be wrong. Sigh. Huggs, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! Remember when Dristan used to used to use the "nasograph" in the TV commercials? All it looked like was a kid's geometry protractor. How about we invent the "nerdometer"? There must be some quasiscientific way of measuring the proclivity of a given man to exhibit nerd tendancies. Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Well..the first thing that jumps into my mind..is white socks... but I am hard pressed to come up with the instrmentation. Rusty..you are the engineer here.....the high tech wiz...YOU invent the nerdograph...and I will program it! Be sure to include things like length of pants.....floods are always indicative of a nerd. Do you think they wear them short so you can` see their white socks better? Is a nerd ALWAYS visible from his exterior? Or can a guy look like an absolute PEACH and really be a nerd? Huggs, Diane Fm: * Al T. * 76414,233 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Diane: I know you and Rusty believe that the Nerdograph is a new invention, conceived in the Pub while looking through the dregs of a brew or two, but I can assure you that the Nerdometer was invented in Northern California several years ago by some brilliant analysts. The instrument was found to be useless after several months on the market due to some nerd who, while eating Cheerios for breakfast, hacked the system and published several ways to beat the device. 'ographs and 'ometers have gone the way of software - easily replicated and defeated. The best system yet in use is still the eyeball test. Informationally yours, Al Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi diane! Ok...let me turn the tables for a moment. How many men with white sox, plastic pocket protectors and (shudder) polyester sport jackets...get short shrift because the look like nerds? Yet...they are very caring, compassionate, loving folks. They just get taken to task because of the way they dress. How many men are rejected unfairly as a result? Cheers rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty.......probably uncounted thousands...and isn't that a waste? And....er...I have *never* seen anyone whose socks were so white as yours. And.....I love that little logo on your plastic pocket protector. And I can tell from here that you are a very caring and considerate person.....so.....do I categorize you as a nerd? Nope. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. And while the stuff about your socks and your plastic pocket protector isn't true in reality....your characteristics come shining through here. So...if you DID wear white socks...would it really matter? Nope. Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! Err...what about plastic lawn flamingos? And...club soda instead of Perrier? And...beat up Chevy's. Do we have a category for near-nerds? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) HI Rusty! I consider people who put out lawn flamingos....and serve soda instead of Perrier..and drive old Chevies to be rugged individualists and therefore, very far from nerddom! What do you think Rusty? Huggs, Diane P. S. - How do you tell a female nerd? Does she wear something, or do something to distingish herself from her more soignee sisters? Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! I happen to agree completely with your assessment of rugged individuals! Hmmm...female nerds...or "nerdettes" as they are called exhibit the following tendancies: They wear cheap fake fur jackets and think they are fasionable, change gentlemen friends quickly based upon material assessments, and are freqently referred to as "airheads" Clear up your question?? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Huh?? Er could you repeat that Diane, I was staring at your breasts!!! nldd (no longer debonair dave> Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, Having never been into the single bar scene, I can only tell you what I feel about the one liners! First of all, most of them are quite unbelieveable! I would never fall for one, unless I was desperate for some companionship for an evening.....realizing that it was a one night stand with no commitments on his part. But then, I don't think I would find myself in that position. Number 9 took the cake! I would be splitting my sides with laughter if a man ever said that to me....grin. I can't see how it could get more two-sided than it all ready is! Talk about saying one thing and meaning another..whew! Cheryl Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X) Hi Cheryl! You bring up an interesting point about the "gullibility" factor. Do you think some women actually want to believe the lies? And, are you convinced they are *all* lies? One of my personal favorites has been "If some young lady can get some sort of pleasure out of this humble body, who am I to stand in her way?" Is that one any better? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, Hmmmmm......how can you convince someone that they are telling a lie if they *REALLY* believe what they are saying? Don't some men believe that women desire their bodies and that is all these women want? But, I also think some women want to be gullible at times. It is nice to believe a fairy tale. If some man gives them a line, well, it is up to them how gullible they want to be. I personnally don't care for gullible types when it comes to lines about sex. A straight forward approach can be quite crude, but honest! Since, I don't know about being "picked" up....does honesty pay? I do like the one you mentioned, I had to chuckle at it...... Cheryl Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X) Hi Cheryl! Dave S. just left a very similar message...the idea being that women who allow themselves to believe the lies are perhaps trying to act out a fairly ttale. (ahem)...I am used to women wanting my body...so it is not a big problem. (if you believe that, can I show you some Florida vacation land?) Are there not times that both men and women would like to be able to believe some of the lies? Do you think that some folks *like* to be gullible? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, Yes, there are times when men and women would like to believe those types of lies. Why? Well, it probably makes them feel good that they are attractive to the other (same, depending if one is gay) sex. Let's face it when you notice someone looking at you (that you also find attractive) it feels good. So, why wouldn't a "come on" line stroke the ego and make one feel good? I think there are times when we want to be gullible and times when we don't. I have seen naturally gullible people (my sister is slightly that way), but this would have to be trying at times for the person. I would not want to be that way *all* the time! But, sometimes it is nice to let down our common sense side of our mind and be gullible! Cheryl Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X) Hi Cheryl! Ah yes! The ego! Of course it makes us feel good to know that other people find us to be attractive. Are the times that we like to be gullible the times that we need positive reinforcement of our "worthiness"? When we are a little down and feeling unloved it can be a very pleasant experience! Err...would your gullible sister like to meet me? (just kidding) Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, Well, she is not your type, so I won't make a date! (grin) I don't think being gullible necessarily means that we need positive reinforcement of our own "worthiness". But, it is just nice to have the ego stroked every now and then (whether the comment is pertaining to sex or doing a good job at work). Cheryl Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 Hi Cheryl! Hmmm...Have you heard of the "One Minute Manager"? It deals with giving one minute pep talks or dealing with performance problems in little "one minute" batches. I suppose the "One Minute Lover" has a rather unfortunate connotation! Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) HI Rusty! sure! I am interested in looking at your brochures of Florida vacation land! (hehehe) Huggs, Diane Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty, D*MN.... Those wer 10 of my best lines!!! have you been peeking at my book???? dave Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) Hi Dave! Ok Ok...here are some more I wrote just for you: 1) Honest, it's only a cold sore. 2) Have you ever slept with a legend before? 3) I wish I could find a woman who wants me because of my personality, not just because I am such a great lover. Use them and report back with your success rate! Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty, Sorry, can't use #1, I'm just not right for it, but I'll try the others. dave Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Female response to recent listing of lies for Rusty and Dave: 1. I thought cold soles usually occured on the lips? Where is my coat? 2. (if this guy has to rely on his reputation to *sell* me..he must be over the hill....or over rated) Where did you say my coat was? 3. (what personality????) Oh...I see my coat..I'll let myself out! Forget that drink!! G'nite!! Huggs, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! Yes, but you are a very wise woman. There are many who are not as fortunate as you! These women are the prey of "lounge lizards" who will tell these women what they are desperate to hear. (I know...not another *lizard* story!) Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty, Just who is the lizard in these situations? The guy who *knows* what he is after and how to go about getting it. Or the women who also knows what she wants and will put up with *ANYTHING* to get it? Either one could be avoiding the truth. Either one could be hurt if one side is telling the truth and the other is not. Morale of the story, stay away from lounges for picking up women. Lounges are place to meet and talk,like Rusty's Pub! dave Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) Hi Dave! Good point! I guess there are male lizards and there are female lizards. Maybe that is how lizards propagate! The idea of either person being hurt is a very going point! Maybe that is why so many of us avoid singles bars? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty, I *KNOW* that is the reason *I* avoid them. dave Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) Hi Dave! Awww...c'mon Dave! You sure you're not just getting old??? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 Rusty, I must admit that when I hear what comes out of the mouths of these people in the bars lately, I do feel old!! I also feel old when the new mail girl passes by and reminds me of my friends daughters!!!! However, none of this will stop me from chasing Kellie!!!! (It may prevent me from remembring what to do with her when I catch her however!) dave Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) HI Rusty!.... This is what I have decided about this thread of messages: If the lizard tells the chick all those lies.............. and if the chick believes them............................. They deserve each other and no one is hurt. The ultimate lizard story. Huggs, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! in other words...if I understand you correctly... If two jerks fine each other...then that clears the competition of two jerks...making it easier for us nice people to find each other. Is that what you mean? cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) HI Rusty! Well...I would probably NEVER phrase it that way.....because I am a very kind person!! I am just saying that when one with needs meets another willing to fill those needs...(and the reverse as well)...then HOW they go about it is between the two of them..and is really no one else's business. Isn't that a much kinder way to phrase that? No one but *us* need know whether they are jerks or not! Huggs, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! Yes it is kinder, but it does not answer the question. How many relationships wind up with people who really deserve each other? I suspect there is a grave imbalance! Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Anne * 76257,1111 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, I probably shouldn't even consider commenting, as I've never set foot in a singles bar (or any other kind 'cept your pub!), and have never been "picked up". But women DO talk, and you might be surprised how often I've heard my women friends laugh at guys who tried lies like that on them! The one I liked best was used on TWO of my friends by the same guy, a week apart. The line was, "I'm sorry to be rude, but I couldn't help but overhear part of your conversation. You have a WONDERFUL voice... I hear Southern girls are special people...can we get acquainted?" The reason both women thought it was particularly funny is that, at a bar in Dallas, he picked one girl from Ohio and another from Canada! Seems to me, tho, that what happened to Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie when as Tootsie Jessica Lange told him she wished a man would just be honest and say he'd like to go to bed with her -- and the man tried it, and got a drink thrown in his face -- would be VERY likely to happen in real life. "You can't tell an important truth to a stranger", said the American Pschiatric Association after a conference on falsehoods a few years back, and even St. Thomas Aquinas said that "Lies are oft the balm which spares the heart." I wouldn't say all men lie, but I would say that a lot of what passes for flirtation in today's world might have been called "creative writing" in my college truth-in-advertising classes! Anne Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Anne * 76257,1111 (X) Hi Anne! I suppose that the lies that work never get noticed because women don't realize they're being told a lie? You mentioned that the APA said "You can't tell an important truth to a stranger." Could you elaborate on that? It sounds interesting. Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Anne * 76257,1111 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty: If you're looking for an explanation of the gobbeldygook shrinks hand out... you've got the wrong girl, hon! I don't profess to understand WHY they said you can't tell an important truth to a stranger...or what they meant by that. But I once wrote a magazine article on lying ("The Check's in the Mail...and other tall tales"), and ran across the minutes of a conference called "The Truth and its Limitations" which was sponsored by the APA. This bit of pithy truism was found in the conference minutes. Anne Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Anne * 76257,1111 (X) Hi Anne! What a great title for an article about lying! Reminds me of the three great lies (clean version)... 1) the check is in the mail 2) one size fits all 3) Hi! I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 Diane, Somehow, I just don't believe you. You may just switch to the behind, cause that way you won't get caught!!!!! higgers dd Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Al T. * 76414,233 But one question Al, What do you do with the eyeball of a nerd once you get one? dave Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) HI Rusty! I consider people who put out lawn flamingos....and serve soda instead of Perrier..and drive old Chevies to be rugged individualists and therefore, very far from nerddom! What do you think Rusty? Huggs, Diane P. S. - How do you tell a female nerd? Does she wear something, or do something to distingish herself from her more soignee sisters? Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! I happen to agree completely with your assessment of rugged individuals! Hmmm...female nerds...or "nerdettes" as they are called exhibit the following tendancies: They wear cheap fake fur jackets and think they are fasionable, change gentlemen friends quickly based upon material assessments, and are freqently referred to as "airheads" Clear up your question?? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty, Airheads are more commonly found under the cover rather than before. Which is a unfortunate risk that one must take when taking up after a "crotch-watcher" dave Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X) Hi Dave! Hmmm.... Are you sure that you can't spot them before? Or is your mind just not functioning in a "filter" mode before you get under the covers with them? Cheers! rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) BINGO!!! you caught me! Really until then, .......... dave Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Hi Dave! See!!! that's the problem. You're thinking with the "little head" when you should be thinking with the "big head"!!! Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Yeah......Rusty..and thanks!! .......except for one thing! Would either you or Dave (or preferably BOTH??)...define the term airhead for me? Cheers back! Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! [looking in the Rusty Dictionary of Commonly Used Pub Words] ahah! here it is.... airhead aer'-hed (n.) one who has air where brains ought to be. That settle it for you? Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Diane, Somehow, I just don't believe you. You may just switch to the behind, cause that way you won't get caught!!!!! higgers dd Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty, I must admit that when I hear what comes out of the mouths of these people in the bars lately, I do feel old!! I also feel old when the new mail girl passes by and reminds me of my friends daughters!!!! However, none of this will stop me from chasing Kellie!!!! (It may prevent me from remembring what to do with her when I catch her however!) dave Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 To: * Al T. * 76414,233 (X) But one question Al, What do you do with the eyeball of a nerd once you get one? dave Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, Yep, I have heard of the "One Minute Manager". I have read it. But the "One Minute Lover"....., you might have a best seller for someone who is interested only in a "quickie"! Cheryl * Reply: 4602 Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X) Hi Cheryl! Hmmm...are quickies actually that quick?? Cheers! Rusty * Reply: 4736 * RR 4428 + Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Rusty, Only in the mind! Cheryl Fm: * Danny Z. * 70307,504 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Rusty, As one of the males who doesn't like macho characters, and tries to treat women as humans, I am insulted by a woman who thinks that's a lie. Am I supposed to lie and say that I *like* macho men to please her?! Some more of that kind of skewed logic, and I'll really start treating women like they don't know a good thing when they see it. I mean I'm obviously a good thing... --Danny Z. Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Danny Z. * 70307,504 Hi Danny! Not all women think it is a lie...just ask around here on HSX! These are "singles bar" lies...and not too many non-macho men turn up in singles bars. Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Danny Z. * 70307,504 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Dear Diane, Sounds like you (and the rest of the responders so far) take things too seriously: c' mmon, give the guys a break! They're just trying hard to be witty and personal in an impersonal situation. Relax! Enjoy somebody giving away his self-esteem and lying just to get your attention! That's the biggest compliment you can get these days and still keep laughing! --Danny Z. Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Danny Z. * 70307,504 Here we go again, Danny! What makes you say that a man propositioning a woman is an "impersonal" situation???? Fm: * Lana * 73147,3412 To: * Danny Z. * 70307,504 Dear Danny, Well, maybe I'm strange, but the kind of man who gives away his self-esteem and lies just to get my attention just doesn't appeal to me. I DON'T consider it a compliment, either. I also don't think I take things too seriously. A man can be witty and charming WITHOUT lying, don't you think? Or do you consider that impossible? Lana Fm: Eleanor G. 74216,3631 To: * Lana * 73147,3412 (X) Dear Lana, Think of this as an infinite loop: YES! I AGREE!!!!!! I once had a somewhat extended sorta relationship with a man who lied--constantly. Harmless things, really (I guess). Lies that made him (in his eyes) appear more macho, more intelligent, more productive. Of course, I got to the point where I believed absolutely nothing he said. I even doubted that his mother was of a certain nationality until a friend of mine had talked to her on the phone and mentioned the accent. I excused him on the ground that he was young and trying to impress me. (Okay. Okay. So he was 26 and I was 40. My excuse is that he was soooooo adorable. ) After a while, I became fascinated with the lying. He lied about absolutely everything! Not to deceive me about anything. He just seemed to live in a world of lies. He lied about his softball record. He lied about his education. He lied about what television programs he watched. He could have been an artist, but unfortunately he didn't have the best memory in the world. I used to sit and look at him when we were out to dinner and listen to his stories. They weren't very good and they frequently conflicted with something he had told me previously. It was utterly amazing. Let me give you an example of his skill. (By the way, this dear, little thing and I have known each other for about 8 years) He had told me many times that he had majored in history in college (so had I). Now I never tried to pin him down. Unfair, I thought. But one night I asked him, "Which came first: the Renaissance or the Dark Ages?" He looked puzzled and said, "It was the Renaissance, wasn't it?" POOR BABY! I hate lying and I usually know. I think that most people lie occasionally and occasionally should be forgiven, overlooked, forgotten, ignored, etc. But to lie about feelings, goals, etc., in a relationship is not a nice thing to do. That's the point where I say, "Hey! It's been fun! Let's meet for lunch sometime. Bye!" Huggggs Eleanor Fm: * Greg * 76703,766 To: Eleanor G. 74216,3631 (X) Eleanor: I had a colege roommate, Pat, who was like that. Everything had to be made a little more fascinating than it really was. Except Pat could remember his lies and string them together rather well. But I caught him. Pathological lying is a precursor, if not an outright indication, of serious emotional instability. I still wonder if he was lying about the jewelry store thing. And the Hell's Angel's thing. And the attempted robbery with battery thing. Definitely a strange character. Cheers! Greg Fm: Eleanor G. 74216,3631 To: * Greg * 76703,766 (X) Dear Greg, But amusing, no? I was fascinated by the lies even if they were poorly told. Now, you want some good lies? I can tell you some good lies. Not pathologically, hon. Just deliberately, mischievously, daringly, entertainingly! Ooooh yeah! Eleanor Fm: Don F. 74136,654 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Diane, I am forcing myself NOT to look up the whole thread that led to your 3-point answer. That way I can enjoy wondering if you really mean cold "soles your mouth? Now a cold sole in the middle of back can lead to interesting maneuvers. Or cold Dover Sole with mayo, candlelit, with tossed green salad, etc. tres romantic! 'scuse my denseness this a.m. maybe I better go do a little intense sole-searching. Huggers, Don. Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: Don F. 74136,654 (X) Oh....shoot! Did I say cold soles? I must have been hungry!! Did I even mean to say cold sores? Whatever was I talking about??? Now.....you have forced ME to go back and reread the thread...sigh And I usually only stick my OWN foot in my OWN mouth!! Chuckling, Diane Fm: Don F. 74136,654 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) DIANE (la huntress reincarnate, hmmmmmm?) Somehow, lady, you put me back into early (incomplete!) classical studies mood. Second thing I absorbed in Latin (first was, of course, that amor amas amatum stuff . . ) was agricola agriclorum or some such . . why they thought hi-school kids gave a damn about farmers . .? However, having survived into adulthood (prolly because I ducked wisely out of Latin . . and never tried Greek) then spent many years on the fringes of agriculture right here in these U. States. What, you may well ask, is the possible connection with your froodian slip? Aha . . . your 'umble scribe became SO very familiar with Foot-in-Mouth disease. The hell with the cattle, have seen what it does to people. Me, included. Dreadful. Awesome. Highly contagious. Primary symptom: pronounced flush of facial (and sometimes other) areas. Only known cure: healthy laughter. ON THE OTHER HAND, once knew a lively lovely lass whom I could only describe as "toe-licking-good!" Suppose the mal-ladies is related? O Sole Meeow, Don F. Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: Don F. 74136,654 (X) Perhaps you just sensed that I was an Iowa farm girl who also studied Latin....so I can relate to agricola!! But.....had gotten so used to other kinds of colas had almost forgotten my Latin! Toodles, Diane Fm: Don F. 74136,654 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) . . . when I see the emphasis on colas, heave big sigh of relief that you aren't thinking Spanish!!!!! Don. Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Oh..Rusty...I forgot one little thing here.....you know..about nerds? umm....this is very difficult to bring up......but in my opinion... people who like country music and neglect classical music may be hovering on the edge of *nerddom*. Or am I an iconoclast???? Attacking sacred cows huggs, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! The anthropologists of the future will make the country music of today the classics of tomorrow. Who could ever say that these lines are not classics: "Thank God and Greyhound You're Gone" "Don't Come Home a Drinking with Loving on Your Mind" "All the Girls Keep Getting Prettier at Closing Time" "If the Phone Don't Ring, You'll Know it's Me" "I don't Know Whether to Kill Myself or go Bowling" "How can Whisky only Six Years Old Whip a Man of 32" Tell me with a straight face that these are not classics Diane! Cheers! Good Neighbor Rusty Fm: * Greg * 76703,766 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) You're right, Rusty: Margaret Mead, rest her soul, would be compelled to agree with you. But why stop with country? What about: "Show n Tell," Al Wilson, lead vocals; John Dean, backup vocals. "You're Breaking My Heart...So F*K YOU," Harry Nillson, lead; Judge William Kean, lead mallot. "Der Fuhrer," Ronny Reagan and the Raygunettes and who could forget, "It's My Party (and I'll cry if I want to)," Leslie Gore, lead; Ed Muskie, backup. They weren't as MEMORABLE as your selection, but I just couldn't let these few go unnoticed by posterity. !! SALUTE' !! Cheers! Greg Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Greg * 76703,766 (X) Hi Greg! You left out one of my favorites from the 50's.... Dean Rusk and the Alternatives! (or was that early 60's?) Cheers! Rusty Sb: #4611-#Men's Lies: Women Wise? Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) Dear Ner.......err...rather Rusty! In 100 years....or 200....or 400.....come back and ask people if they have ever heard of those songs.....if even *one* person has....I will give my fake bunny fur jacket to charity! Huggs from Bach, Beethoven, Handel, and me, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! We already have the classics of only a few short decades ago! Who could ever forget Kenny Gardner with the Guy Lombardo Orchestra singing such classics as: What did Robinson Crusoe do with Friday on a Saturday Night? and.... When Bananna Skins are Falling, I'll Come Sliding Back to You! Classics! all of them! Cheers! Rusty Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077 To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X) HI Rusty! When you make the comment about people deserving each other... is that in a positive way, or a negative way? Do people really get what they deserve?.....or do they deserve what they get? Wondering huggs, Diane Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627 To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X) Hi Diane! I mean it in a negative way. There are lots of cases of people not getting the kind of mate they deserve, but after all it was their choice! How's that for a generalization? Cheers! Rusty